June 13, iyo7 



517 



American ^ec Journalj^ 



lU-r- 



-f^^^J 



having two stories to rear brood in, and 

 having just as strong colonies as th> 

 lo-frames. To come now to answering 

 the question directly: It is not an 

 easy thing, unless you have a lot of 

 ID-frames side by side with 8-frame 

 hives. I had a good many years' ex- 

 perience with lo-frame hives, and then 



1 had a good many years' experience 

 with the 8-frame hives, but you see 

 you can not compare them. It is not 

 an easy tiling. The fact that I have had 

 much experience with each of them 

 docs not help me to any positive answer 

 as to what they will do in the same 

 year. The trouble with me is, when I 

 make an experiment I go head over 

 heels and change everything, and some- 

 times lose a whole lot by it, but I have 

 an impression, by giving the right kind 

 of care, I can get a little more honey 

 out of the same amount of the 8 than 

 of the 10 — in comb honey — and allow 

 them to use the two stories. 



Mr. Moore — Dr. Miller, you are get- 

 ting clear ofT the question. You are 

 running in harness with Mr. Horstmann. 

 You people are not talking about an 8- 

 frame hive — you are talking about a 

 i6-frame hive, and you are telling this 

 convention that you can get more honey 

 from a i6-frame hive than from a lo- 

 frame hive, and you ought to. The 

 question is. Will you get more honey, 

 or as much, from an 8-frame hive as a 

 lO-frame hive, as the ordinary person 

 manipulates them, not the way you 

 skilled people handle it? 



Dr. Miller — Begging the Secretary's 

 pardon, the question is not the way of 

 manipulating. The question is, Which 

 shall I take? and the manner of using 

 is a question that comes afterward. The 

 question is whether I shall take an 8- 

 frame or a lo-frame hive, and then I 

 may use one or both of them 2 stories. 

 Don't let us get away from the ques- 

 tion. If you want to go back to that, 

 if you confine yourselves to the 8 

 frames — if Mr. Moore wants that ques- 

 tion answered, I will answer it. Con- 

 fine yourself to 8-frames, or confine 

 yourself to lo frames, and which will 

 you get the most from? Ten frames, 

 every time, if you are going to hold me 

 down to 10 frames; but that was not 

 the question, as I understand. 



Mr. Moore — That is the way I under- 

 stood it. 



Mr. Abbott — Here is a point Dr. Mil- 

 ler does not 'seem to take into con- 

 sideration. The bees that are in a lo- 

 frame colony, separated and put into 



2 8-frame colonies, will not gather as 

 much honey in proportion as they will 

 if left all together. They can not do- 

 it. The greater bulk of bees that you 

 can get in one body, working in one 

 hive, the greater quantity of honey you 

 will get. and you can not take those 2 

 8-frame hives, using double bodies, and 

 get the same amount of bees in the 2 

 8-frame hives, working in that way, as 

 would be in one lo-frame hive, and get 

 as good results as you could if the bees 

 were all in that lo-frame hive, and 

 working as one colony. 



Mr. Wilcox — My answers were based 

 entirely upon the suppositions that 

 have been explained by Dr. Miller, and 

 I am exactly agreed with him and Mr. 

 Horstmann, and my system is exactly 



the same as that described by him with- 

 out the slightest variation, and conse- 

 quently I still adhere to the statement. 

 My understanding of that question 

 was that we were to use the hives as 

 we pleased, which is better to adopt? 

 Of course, if we were confined to a 

 single story, and use the ' same size all 

 the season throuch, the lo-frame would 

 be the better undoubtedly. Another point 



1 want to give : I do not know that 

 it is of any importance except that it is 

 interesting. I tried an experiment 

 once. I put a few colonies in 4-frame 

 hives, a few in 6-frame, a few in S- 

 frame, and a few in lo-frame, and set 

 them all in a row close together, with 

 young queens all the same age, and kept 

 them 2 years, and the result was just 

 about in proportion to the size of the 

 hives, except that the bees in the smal- 

 ler ones nearly all died the first winter. 



Dr. Miller — Allow me to explain, as 

 Mr. Wilcox suggests, I did not mean to 

 suggest by any means that the 2 stories 

 are used all the year round, only in 

 building up the colonies; when they 

 have got so strong in the spring that they 

 need the 2 stories until the time of the 

 harvest. They do not always need the 



2 stories, but I want the privilege of 

 using the 2 stories when thev get strong 

 enough to need it. 



Dr. Bohrer — Dr. Miller answered the 

 question categorically. He says he gets 

 more honey from the lo-frame hive, 

 and then he stated the chief objection 

 there is to a lo-frame hive, and I find 

 the same objection to it, and that is, 

 that the 8-frame hive is decidedly pre- 

 ferable when you come to handle it, 

 especially to a man afflicted with lum- 

 bago. Tliat is the principal thing. The 

 Doctor says he gets more honey from 

 the lo-frame hive. 



Dr. Miller — No. It is the other way; 

 at least I am afraid I get more from the 

 8-frame hive. 



Mr. Sewel! — It has come to a rather 

 interesting point. I would like to ask a 

 question of Dr. Miller. Does he not 

 get some gain, or perhaps a great gain, 

 in taking away those 8 frames just at 

 that time? In taking them away, oi 

 shutting the queen down to an 8-frame, 

 you cramp her to a great extent, so that 

 she does not produce a great lot of 

 useless workers that are going to go on 

 and be consumers, rather than useless 

 workers, just at that time. 



Dr. Miller — I am not sure it is safe 

 to say anything against that generally 

 accepted theory about rearing useless 

 workers; but if I dared say it, I would 

 say I don't believe in_it at all. I want 

 to rear all the bees I can at all times 

 of the year. That thing of rearing use- 

 less workers I am not afraid of — I do 

 not bother myself about it at all. But 

 the question he asks is an entirely per- 

 tinent one. The taking away of those 

 frames at that time still leaves, I think, 

 that 8-frame hive, as much room as the 

 queen will be likely to use during fhe 

 harvest time; ami even if she were in a 

 lo-frame hive, I do not believe she 

 would use more. You know the queen 

 begins to limit her laying as the harvest 

 begins to come in, I think, as a rule, 

 they will have plenty of honey in the 

 8-frames, And then, please remember 

 this: In limiting the amount in the 



lower story we are really not limiting 

 the room lor the bees. It is simply giv- 

 ing room in a different place. We give 

 the room above, and we are giving 

 them all the room that they need. 



Mt. Moore — The importance of this 

 discussion, from my standpoint, is this : 

 There has been a fashion, a saying 

 gone abroad, that to produce comb 

 honey you should use the 8-frame hive. 

 It is a question of what we are re- 

 commending to the bee-keepers. What 

 are Dr. Miller and the other scientific 

 gentlemen recommending to the bee- 

 keepers as the best thing for comb 

 honey? I do not believe for a moment 

 that all these people who are not pro- 

 fessionals, who have been using the 8- 

 frame, have been using the 2 stories. I 

 take it that they have been using a 

 single 8-frame hive, and they think they 

 have been rnaking a profit over the 

 lo-frame, which 1 think is a grievou* 

 error. 



Mr. Horstmann — Mr. Moore speaks 

 of a l6-frame hive. According to hij 

 idea, I have had 50-frame hives. I 

 have had my hives stacked up 5 bodiei 

 of 10 frames each. According to his 

 idea I had 50-frame hives. I say what 

 is meant by an 8-frame hive is an 8- 

 frame hive-bod}', one body that will 

 contain 8 frames. You can pile them up 

 as high as you please. 



The meeting then adjourned till 9 

 o'clock the next day. 



Second Day— Morning Session. 



The convention met 9:30 a. m., with 

 Pres. York in the chair. Dr. Miller 

 offered the following invocation : 



Our Father, who art in Heaven, we 

 thank Thee that Thou carest for us. We 

 thank Thee that Thou hast the interest 

 of bee-keeners before Thee, even with 

 all the infinite cares that Thou hast. 

 We thank Thee for this meeting to- 

 gether for conference; for the gooa 

 feeling that existed in the session yes- 

 terday. We pray that this good feeling 

 may continue, and we ask Thee that all 

 that is done and said to-day may be 

 useful, that the time may be well spent. 

 We pray, dear Father, that Thv bless- 

 ing may be upon us. We know that it 

 we have Thy blessing it will be a good 

 deal to us. We ask it in Jesus' name. 

 Amen. 



Auditing Committee's Report. 



Pres. York— We will now listen to 

 the report of the Auditing Committee. 

 Mr. Kimmey, I believe, is chairman. 



Mr. Kimme}— We have the following 

 report to ofTer : 

 To ^ the Chicago - Northzvestern Bee- 



Keefiers' Association : 



Your committee appointed to examine 

 the books and accounts of the Secre- 

 tary-Treasurer respectfully report that 

 they have carefully examined his books 

 and vouchers, and find the same cor- 

 rect. / 



Fred L. Kimmev 

 W. B. Chapman 

 J. C. Wheeler 



Committee. 



Mr. Kimmey— I would like to move 

 that the report of the committee be 

 adopted. 



Dr. Miller — Second the motion. 



The motion was put and carried. 



