184^.] 



THE CIVIL ENGINEER AND ARCHITECT'S JOURNAL. 



219 



it next to impossible, for the great st;ite carriage to pass without great 

 inconvenience, then turn round a pillar, and then out by the southern 

 gateway. That portion, however, had been since materially altered, 

 but then a great increase of area had been added to the site. 



Lord Sudeley's examination is then continued as follows, and it will 

 be seen that he states at length all his objections to the plan as it at 

 present exists. 



Then your objection to what has been done is, not that there has been an 

 alteration, but that tliat aheration, considering tbe increase of area, has not 

 been suthciently effectual to accomplish its purpose ? — Yes. I object to tlie 

 present plan, because I think it is not nearly so good a plan as the one before 

 you ; and, secondly, I object to it because tbe architect has not carried out 

 his own idea in tbe best possible manner. But perhaps I bad better now ex- 

 plain the second plan, taken from the Illustrated London News, and which 

 is now_being carried into execution. The committee now perceive that the 

 Queen will enter the Victoria Tower precisely as she did in the former plan, 

 but, instead of going round a pillar, tlie royal carriage will now pass through 

 the tower, and under the Queen's robing room, into the royal court. Your 

 lordships will recollect that the plan before you is not that of the basement, 

 but the principal floor. The royal carriage drives through the tower, the 

 Queen is set down on the left-hand side, aud ascends a flight of nine steps to 

 the first landing ; she then ascends three steps to the second landing, when, 

 turning to the right, she has to ascend a further tbght of twenty-five or 

 twenty-six steps into the lobby ; from tbe lobby she enters the Victoria gal- 

 lery, and thence into tbe robing room on the right, and from the robing 

 room proceeds through tbe Victoria gallery to the House of Lords. Such is 

 the present plan of Mr. Barry executing at tliis moment. Now my objection 

 is to every part of this plan except the tower, which is very much improved. 

 But I leave it to your lordships to consider whether the stairs is a fitting one. 

 even for a common mansion. An ascent of five or six and twenty flyers 

 without any landing is inconvenient, and any thing but ornamental. Y'our 

 lordships can scarcely supply any instance of that in any mansion where ap- 

 pearance has been studied. 



Are the steps six inches ? — Six inch steps, as I am informed ; but if they 

 were four and a lialf, or five, I should still object to it. I am not aware of 

 any instance of a mansion in which ease, beauty, or convenience has been 

 considered where there is any such objectionable ascent to be met with. 



AVould it be practicable to alter this ? — I will show the committee pre- 

 sently that in my opinion it is. My next objection is, that in the lobby, on 

 looking at the plan, you wiU observe that in tbe centre of it there is a pillar, 

 intended for groining the ceiling ; at least I presume so. If a line is drawn 

 from the centre of tbe stairs to the centre of the door it will be seen that 

 the pillar stands directly in the way of the peers' approach. I now come to 

 the Victoria gallery itself. I object to the Victoria gallery on several ac- 

 counts. There was a gallery, but that was of very diiferent character ; that 

 was hterally a gallery : whereas I contend that this is neither one thing nor 

 the other. It is too short for a gallery in proportion to its width, and it is 

 too long for a hall. Therefore, as a matter of taste, I olyect to its propor- 

 tions. But that is not the only objection. It deprives the Queen of her 

 robing room immediately adjoining tlie House of Lords. Another very im- 

 portant point is, that in consequence of this gallery there will be a con- 

 tinuous roof from tbe House of Lords to Little Abingdon Street. The roof 

 wdl be from 90 to 100 feet in height ; contrary to Mr. Barry's own princi- 

 ple, as stated in his prospectus or paper which he delivered with his plan ; 

 for he there observes that he has carried up the houses of parliament greatly 

 above all the rest of the buildings, for the benefit of air and light. Now I 

 need not observe to your lordships, that both the light is obstructed aud tbe 

 air is impeded by this arrangement. Besides, we shall be deprived at one 

 end of tbe House of Lords of the power of lighting it, if it should be required. 

 Then, as I before observed, the Queen is deprived of her robing room imme- 

 diately behind the House of Lord ; the very situation which Mr. Barry him- 

 self by bis former plan recommends that it should be placed, but which has 

 since been altered. In fact, as it appears to me, everything has been sacri- 

 ficed to this Victoria gallery. There is no communication whatever from 

 north to south, or from east to west, except through this gallery. And if 

 there was no other objection to it, the circumstance that the gallery must be 

 lighted and must be ventilated the same as the House of Lords tliiougbout 

 tbe year, although it would otherwise be required to be used only on state 

 occasions, would be a sufiicient one. 



You are aware that it was stated by Mr. Barry that it would be necessary 

 to keep up a certain temperature on account of the fieseo paintings .' — If the 

 buildings of the bouses of Parliament are meant for the fine arts, I think then 

 that Mr. Barry's observation may be perfectly right; but I consider tbe 

 houses of parliament are built for no such object ; that the fine arts ought to 

 be called in to embellish the houses of parliament, and that no necessary 

 architectural arrangement shall be sacrificed for their display. I have now 

 endeavoured to show the difference between the two plans, and I believe I 

 have staled all the objections I have to the present one. 



Are there any other differences besides those you have mentioned ? — There 

 is. The plan is all re-cast. The committee will see that in my evidence, in 

 answer to Sir Robert Peel, reference is twice made to alterations that might 

 take place, in addition to what the commissioners had suggested. Now the 

 word " suggested" requires some explanation, because it might naturally be 

 supposed that when the commissioners were suggesting some alterations, 

 they might as well have suggested others as well as those they did suggest ; 



but the reason was this, we confined our objections entirely to such parts of 

 the elevations aud the ground plan as might be altered without any recasting 

 of the plan. 



Assuming tbe plan to be substantially preserved? — Y'es; because we 

 thought we should do injustice to the others, if we went upon any other 

 principle than that of removng actual objections. 



You preserved in each case tbe principal plan, and suggested alterations in 

 the detail ? — Precisely so. There is one great objection to this plan which 

 does not apply to tbe original. Y'onr lordships will observe that there are 

 no corridors from one end of the house to the other along either side of the 

 Victoria gallery. 



Weie there in the old plan ? — There were. It may perhaps appear to be 

 vanity in me to state to your lordships that I think I see a remedy for this 

 evil. No doubt Mr. Barry could find a much better one than I can suggest. 

 At the same time it is necessary, before I state what it is at all, that your 

 lordships should be convinced, with me, that there is an inconvenience de- 

 manding a remedy. If you are so convinced I will lay before you a plan o£ 

 the alteration I would suggest. fHis lordship proiliiced another plan.) The 

 Victoria hall, according to this alteration, is, although not so long, in my 

 opinion a very fine room. It is 100 feet long by forty-five. 



You have made it avowedly a hall, and not a gallery ? — Avowedly a hall , 

 and not a gallery. 



Would you light this Victoria hall by skylights ? — It may be done by a 

 skylight, if it is necessary ; but it is unnecessary, because there are sufiicient 

 means of lighting it without having recourse to any. 



Y'ou make the ascent much more gradual ? — Much more gradual ; and 

 there are two additional landings. 



Have you any other observation to make ? — I am not aware of any, except 

 upon one point. I am very sorry that this investigation should take place at 

 the eleventh hour. These plans ought to have been settled years ago. It is 

 going on nine years since tbe commissioners made their report. From that 

 hour, until lately, I have never seen the plan. During the Easter recess I 

 was anxious to see how matters stood, for as the buildings grew up I per- 

 ceived that many alterations had been made, and having obtained a copy of 

 the plans, by which I became better acquainted with the intentions of the 

 architect, the result of my observations I have laid before your lordships. I 

 have only now left to state to you the situation of tbe work when I last 

 looked over it, and to request your lordships to attend to the plan. I went 

 to the top of the walls of the Victoria gallery, which are raised to the line of 

 the floor of the House of Lords, the heads of the windows of which to the 

 West were nearly set, and the windows to the east going on very rapidly, 

 and I have no doubt that in the course of another month we may consider 

 that the walls will be fit to receive the roof. With regard to the corridor 

 that immediately adjoins the house at tbe back of tbe throne, I found that 

 there the springers for the groining of the roof had been set. All on the 

 South side of the buildings, barri)ig the river front, which is now roofing, is 

 in the same state of forwardness; some parts of it rather more advanced 

 than others. Of the staircase, I regret to say that the side walls are nearly 

 up to the flooring of the A'ictoria gallery, and therefore if any alteration takes 

 place in those stairs that part of the building must be taken down. 



Taken down to what extent ? — To no very great extent, and when we are 

 expending near a million the cost of such an alteration is not worth a consi- 

 deration. It is, however, a great pity, that from the advanced state of the 

 work we are placed in this position, that we must either put up with what 

 we consider a defect in tbe plan, or pay the expense which its removal may 

 occasion. 



So terminated his Lordship's examination, after which Mr. Barry 

 is called in, and on being questioned with respect to the alterations 

 alluded to in the foregoing evidence, maintained that whatever had 

 been done, and he admitted it had been done without consulting any 

 other authority than his own judgment, had been alteration in details 

 only, and that tbe main features and principles of the original design 

 had been adhered to, but in bis opinion very considerably improved. 

 There had been a staircase originally as well as be could recollect, but 

 not so imposing a one as that now contemplated ; and there hati also 

 been an approach through a gallery, but such as did not deserve the 

 name in comparison with tlie present. With respect to the distance 

 of tiie robing room from the throne, that objection could be easily met, 

 for there would be no difficulty in getting space for one at the back 

 of the throne. As to the staircase of twenty-five or twenty-six steps 

 in one flight, he could give instances of the same in some of the most 

 celebrated palaces and buildings on the continent. Mr. Barry here 

 handed in the original instructions which he received with respect to 

 the interior accommodation and proportions of all the various depart- 

 ments and subdivisions of the building, which he said were the only 

 instructions generally that he had ever received. Then entered ne- 

 cessarily into many statistical details which would too ranch burden 

 our columns and be totally uninteresting. 



When the Committee next assembled, three days later, Mr. Barry 

 said he wished to hand in a certain document as evidence, which he 

 had drawn up since the last day's meeting, as there appeared to be 

 an impression on their Lordships' minds that he was open to censure 

 for alterations made in tbe plan originally adopted by Parliament. He 



