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around who are giving away their surplus products because they have 

 no way of shipping at a distance twenty miles from the city. For 

 instance, if I want to ship a basket of apples for that distance it becomes 

 too costly. Isn't there some way of handling that produce from the 

 farmer to the consumer so that he would receive a certain amount of 

 money for that rather than giving away their product? 



Dr. Pennington : I would consider going to the neighbors who give 

 away their excess produce, have some method of collecting the excess 

 material they are giving away, then see your railroads and try and get 

 together and talk the matter over and see if you can get those who are 

 giving away their products to handle it to the advantage of all. For 

 my part, I do not believe in asking a railroad to haul a quart of milk or 

 a basket of apples or anything like that. They can handle a carload of 

 apples with much greater efficiency. 



Mr. Reynolds: I was going to answer the gentleman's question 

 regarding milk. I had some experience in the milk business. A customer 

 complained about the milk because I was delivering milk in the morning 

 that was milked the night before. I gave him two bottles of milk, one a 

 week old and one the morning's milk, and he couldn't tell me the dif- 

 ference. He kept on testing it, but he chose the oldest milk as being the 

 fresh milk. If you will keep milk at a temperature of forty degrees, you 

 can send it from New York to Japan by way of San Francisco, and that 

 has been done to my knowledge. But there is one thing I beheve should 

 be seriously considered. I happen to know^ some farmers who have gone 

 out of business because of this experience: They put their milk on the 

 railroad at under fifty degrees and it is landed in the city at over seventy 

 degrees; the milk is inspected, thrown out and the shipper foots the 

 bill and the railroad doesn't do a thing as a result of that sort of method, 

 just as if the milk was thrown in the sewer, and the farmer loses it. He 

 paid his share also to the railroad and he has no come-back. 



Delegate : It seems conditions are changing. We need refrigeration 

 now, but didn't need it or didn't think of it ten years ago. And we are 

 paying for refrigeration but don't get it. We get an attempt at it, but 

 inasmuch as it is impossible to successfully keep the temperature down at 

 all times of the year, "why should we pay for it? We are charged with 

 refrigeration rates, yet it is impossible to get it, and we shouldn't be 

 charged refrigeration rates if we don't get the service. If we got any 

 benefit out of it or if our milk was helped we would pay it. Unless condi- 

 tions change it means we must go out of business. In my own territory, 

 which was formerly a milk-producing territory, we must either change 

 our occupation or do something else. 



Dr. Pennington: The railroads are undoubtedly trying to handle 

 your product in such a way as will procure not only for you but for them- 



