152 CONFERENCE ON MILK PROBLEMS 



safe as certified milk has been shown to be, can certainly be classi- 

 fied as a reasonably safe milk. 



Aside from that, I would like to ask another question: Is pas- 

 teurized milk, as commercially pasteurized to-day, a safe product? 

 I would like very much to be informed on that subj ect. 



A VOICE: The gentleman is out of order. He is not speaking 

 to the question. 



THE CHAIRMAN: I think, Dr. Hamill, you are out of order. 



DR. HAMILL: Well, I will put it in another form, if I may, and 

 I will state, that from investigation, the pasteurized milks, as 

 they are commercially pasteurized to-day, I am convinced, are no 

 more safe than certified milk, and much of it is less safe than cer- 

 tified milk. 



THE CHAIRMAN: This is not commercial pasteurization. This 

 is another matter. 



DR. HAMILL: Well, this has to be milk which is not pasteur- 

 ized commercially? 



THE CHAIRMAN: It must be pasteurized at least for 20 min- 

 utes at 140 degrees, under proper safeguards. 



DR. HAMILL: I do not wish to say for a moment, Mr. Chair- 

 man, that I do not approve of the pasteurization of milk, but I 

 think we are considering two phases of the problem here, both of 

 which deserve proper consideration, and I therefore rise to speak 

 on the subject because I do not understand what the gentlemen 

 who are using the term "reasonable" mean by the term "reason- 

 able." 



DR. ROSENAU: Mr. Chairman, I move that the further discus- 

 sion of the resolution be suspended for this evening. 



THE CHAIRMAN: This is the last resolution, the Chairman of 

 the Resolutions Committee informs me, and this is certainly a very 

 important resolution. It seems to me that we ought to discuss it 

 a little more. 



MR. HUTCHINSON: Isn't it a fact that a temperature of 140 

 degrees F. maintained for 20 minutes, will reduce the bacteria 

 from 120,000 to 10,000? 



THE CHAIRMAN: It will reduce it further. It will reduce it 

 down to 2,000 or 3,000. 



DR. HARDING: I believe that the danger of cattle reacting from 

 these certified milk herds is the basis for this objection to the raw 

 milk proposition. Now, those of you who are familiar with the 

 arrangement of the rules covering it and calling for the test at 

 specific intervals, know that the intervals for the test were chosen 

 with due consideration for the fact that there would in some cases 

 be reactions, and that the period of tests should be sufficiently fre- 



