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AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL, 



Dec. 7 1899. 



Mr. Danzenbaker — That is where you make a mistake. 

 If you put your sections on the very day the swarm goes in, 

 the same hour if possible, you will get more honey. Fifteen 

 years ago I bought some honey for SO cents, and paid 40 

 cents for some other. I get 20 cents now. 



A paper by Mr. P. H. Elwood, of New York, was read 

 next, entitled. 



Can and Ought Bee-Keepers to Control the Honey 

 Market ? 



It would seem to be an easy matter for bee-keepers to 

 control the price of honey when nearly all the honey pro- 

 duced is sold by commission men. Each producer can 

 easily instruct his merchant as to the price he wishes his 

 goods sold at, but unless there be co-operation in fixing the 

 price he will not be much benefited by so doing. If he 

 alone attempts to fix a price above the average, his goods 

 will remain unsold. If, however, all producers unite on a 

 fixt or uniform price, the result will be entirely different. 

 It is this uniting that is the difficult part. 



In nearly all kinds of business co-operation has been 

 successful except among the agricultural classes. It is 

 difficult to see why an intelligent class of men cannot figure 

 out the cost of producing a pound of honey, and add a rea- 

 sonable profit thereto for a selling price. We all know that 

 a large crop can be produced more cheaply per pound than 

 a small one, therefore the first step is to ascertain the 

 amount produced and its location in the country. Then a 

 committee of producers and middlemen can fix a price be- 

 low which it is not desirable to sell. 



Establishing the price of hone}- is now largely the work 

 of a few individuals, and too little attention is paid to the 

 size of the crop. I happen to know that the efforts of one 

 man (Mr. Segelketi) last fall very materially raised the 

 price of fancy comb honey, which was scarce. It was not 

 proposed that this scarcity should affect the opening prices 

 of honey. By so doing the wholesaler would reap the prin- 

 cipal profit of this scarcity, instead of the one legitimately 

 entitled to it — the producer. 



It may be said that it will be diffcult to establish a price 

 for the many sizes and styles of packages oifered. A mini- 

 mum price would strike an average grade, and no objection 

 would be raised to an advanced price for a particularly de- 

 sirable or fashionable package, of which the supply may 

 not be equal to the present demand. It is safe to say, how- 

 ever, that with a full supply of the various shapes and 

 styles of the one-pound package of comb honey, there will 

 not be much difference in price when attractively put up. 



I do :iot see what objection can be raised to an arrange- 

 ment of the kind proposed which is wholly advisory and not 

 compulsory. Its fairness and merits would secure its gen- 

 eral adoption. While carrying with it the idea of g-iving a 

 living profit to the producer, it would also benefit the con- 

 sumer by some svipervision over the distribution of the crop, 

 thus preventing a glut in some markets, as at present, 

 while a scarcity exists in others. 



We can learn something from the fruit-growers as to 

 organization, but the task before us is simple, as our goods 

 are not perishable. The present crop will market itself, 

 but with a full crop thru the country co-operation between 

 bee-keepers and middlemen will become imperatively neces- 

 sary in order to maintain living prices. 



P. H. Elwood. 



Mr. Selser— I am sorry that the paper is so short, for I 

 thought it would be one of the most interesting. The great 

 trouble in marketing honey is shipping honey to the com- 

 mission man. Mr. Wood vras here yesterday. Mr. Segel- 

 ken was also here. There is one gentleman here that .sold 

 him part of his crop at a fair price, and it never went to 

 New York, but to Pittsburg. When there is any fine honej' 

 around Philadelphia I hear of it, and I try to keep myself 

 in touch with the honey market so that I can quote prices. 

 I went down to the market and saw honey that had been 

 sold for 10 cents that was worth 15 cents. The fact was 

 that the commission man knew no more about honey than 

 a cat. I want to emphasize this to every bee-man, not to 

 ship honey on commission. I think there is no other one 

 thing that does so much to bring- down prices. They would 

 not pay wy price. It hurts me, of course, and it hurts the 

 producer more than it does me. 



Mr. Root — I think Mr. Selser's mistake is that there are 

 two classes of commission merchants. We do buj- honey, 

 but sometimes after we have bought honey it goes down in 

 price, and we have it on our hands. If we had it on com- 

 mission we would not have lost so much. It depends upon 

 who the commission men are, and upon who the buyer is. 



Mr. Poppleton — Mr. Root is right, but I sell to commis- 

 sion men when I can get more than in any other way. I 

 sell both ways, in every waj-. 



Mr. Selser — Does not the responsibility of the man 

 make a difference ? But some men worth half a million are 

 not fit to sell honey. 



Mr. Abbott — I am glad Mr. Selser has said what he has, 

 for I think that the whole commission system is a humbug. 

 He might as well ask you to loan him the goods as. to ask 

 j'ou to send him the goods on commission. You cannot do 

 for others as well as you can do for yourself. My wife and 

 I never both leave home at the same time. She staid at 

 home this time. A gentleman came into our place the 

 other day and askt my wife what we paid for hone}'. She 

 said " ll'i cents." He said that the man across the street 

 told him we paid only 9 cents. My wife is not given to 

 ridicule as I am, but in this case she said the man across 

 the street lied. The man came to me. He had left honey 

 with this man, Mr. Willman, but he liad plenty of hone}' on 

 hand, and began to kick about the price. I didn't know the 

 man, but I told him my price, and he told Mr. Willman the 

 honey was sold, and I was glad to handle it, for there were 

 men waiting to buy at 14 cents a pound. In this case the 

 commission man lost money. It was a little batch, so he 

 didn't lose much, perhaps S2.00. I haven't sold the honey 

 yet, for I believe it is best to hold onto honey, for honey 

 will be honey before bees fly again. But it is a mistake to 

 send honey to this, that and the other man. I pay people 

 for honey before I see it, and sell goods for cash. I always 

 get the money, or they don't get the goods. I do business 

 on a cash basis. 



Mr. Selser — There is only one trouble with Mr. Abbott ; 

 he lives in the West, and we want him in Philadelphia. 

 Cannot you come on here ? 



Mr. Abbott — I would spoil your business. [Laughter.] 



Mr. Selser — There is no demand for honey now. If 

 those persons who are pushing honey on the market would 

 wait 30 days, honey would advance. There is not very much 

 call for honey in September, but if you will wait until Octo- 

 ber or November you will get better prices. 



Mr. York — We have honey commission men in Chicago 

 — not as many as we used to have, however — and I agree 

 with Mr. Abbott in one thing, and that is, that I get cash 

 and pay cash. I don't always pay when I get the honey, 

 for people know that I will pay for it just as soon as it is 

 sold. But the price is agreed upon before the honey is shipt 

 to me, so there is never any trouble. A commission man 

 said the price of honey was 13 cents per pound. When askt 

 if he had honey, he said " No." There was no honey on 

 the market. What did he know about the price? One of 

 the Chicago commission men is in Colorado buying all the 

 honey he can get his hands on. I knew of one place where 

 there were five carloads that they were holding for better 

 prices. 



Dr. Miller — Before you hang all the commission men I 

 want to say one word for them. I believe I have a right to 

 hire a man to sell honey for me if I don't want to sell it my- 

 self. That is all there is to the commission business. The 

 honey is mine until it is sold ; if the commission man does 

 not pay me, I can jail him for it. There have been years 

 when I couldn't sell one pound of honey, and those were the 

 years when I considered the commission man my friend. If 

 you sell it to a rascal who cheats you out of your price, it is 

 no worse than to sell to a man who will not pay after he has 

 the honey. I remember one year, when honey was very 

 scarce, the commission men bought it up and had it on their 

 hands. But who sets the price? The commission men. 

 They put the price in the bee-papers. They set the price 

 for us, and I think we ought to say to the commission men, 

 " You are wronging us." I have said it in papers, and j'0« 

 ought to say it at every opportunity. Suppose you sent 

 honey to a coinmission merchant who quotes 8 cents a 

 pound. When he sends returns he sends 9 cents. You are 

 pleased, but his quotation has helpt to lower the market. 

 The commission men put honey down for one reason and 

 another. Once in awhile one will put it away up. Ouota- 

 tions are not as they ought to be. 



Mr. Selser — The price of honey is fixt by one thing — 

 supply and demand. 



Dr. Miller — Not always. 



Mr. Selser — I quote Philadelphia and New York, for I 

 think they are the biggest markets in the United States. 



Dr. Miller — I have seen Mr. Selser's quotations, and I 

 have thought, ''Is that man a rascal?" His prices are 

 nearly always above others. 



Mr. Selser — You can watch my quotations. If honey is 



