(Governor Lamm) Governor Olson 



(Governor Olson): I would like to make an obser- 

 vation and ask Dick Bressler to respond. Family 

 farms are efficient in production and, I think, notori- 

 ously inefficient in defending their position in the 

 market. 



As we move toward more transportation, with which 

 I agree, we lessen competition in moving our products 

 to export, especially in Ted's and my state's products. 



What guarantees can you, as the president of BN, 

 give us that when we have moved to subterminals and 

 consolidating and centralizing the gathering of agricul- 

 tural products and once we have sort of reduced the 

 competition for transportation that you won't, or your 

 company won't, sir, change the rules of the game at 

 that point and perhaps take advantage of your com- 

 petitive position. 



(Mr. Bressler): Well, as you know. Governor, one 

 of the concerns of our company has been the loss of 

 market share that we've had in the State of North 

 Dakota. We've tried to rectify that by being more 

 competitive and we think we have regained market 

 share. They're principally, of course, against the 

 trucking interests. 



I think that you'll never see the complete lack of 

 competition there and I make the point not only with 

 grain but any other commodity that our railroad hauls. 

 We don't make money by not hauling something, so 

 we recognize that if we want to see export gram 

 move to the Northwest ports, which is very instrumen- 

 tal in our well-being as well as it is to the farmers in 

 North Dakota, we have to make sure that that flows. 

 And I think we will. Those forces are going to be 

 there 



(Governor Lamm): Yes, Governor Atiyeh. 



(Governor Atiyeh): If anyone would like to respond 

 to the question of the use of agriculture as a tool in 

 foreign policy. I think our wheat industry was devas- 

 tated by an embargo that effectively took away the 

 market, because Russia then sought other places in 

 the world to buy their wheat Some comment earlier 

 about, I think Dr. Castle mentioned that, that when we 

 announce an embargo policy that it makes even our 

 regular trading partners nervous I know how I feel 

 about it, but I would like to have some comments from 

 anyone who would like to speak to that issue. 



(Dr. Castle): I do not feel that I am a foreign pol- 

 icy expert, but I do think there are some things that 

 can be said about this. With the world 

 demand-supply situation for grains or such, it's 

 exceedingly difficult for one country, even the principal 

 grain exporting country, to unilaterally take action and 



have great effect. What typically happens is that 

 someone else makes up the shortfall 



" . . .it's exceedingly difficult for one 



country, even the principal grain 



exporting country, to unilaterally take 



action and have great effect. " 



I think that grain is very different than petroleum. It 

 may be possible, although it's been temporary, for the 

 oil exporting countries to get together and set some 

 prices and control production on a unilateral basis. 

 But, I think it is very, very difficult to do this in the 

 area of agriculture and grain. 



That isn't to say that our state department people 

 should be ignorant of agriculture or the realities of 

 agriculture, nor that our strength here should be 

 ignored, but it is to say that I think embargoes against 

 one country are very difficult to impose and enforce 

 and be made effective. 



(Governor Lamm): Yes, Governor Ariyoshi 



(Governor Ariyoshi): I think that a number of you 

 have been to Japan and have been part of or 

 involved in selling agricultural products and I think 

 there are some market problems there too. But, one 

 of the things to really talk to the Japanese about 

 when they want to talk to you privately is the prob- 

 lems they went through. They were a country that 

 went through starvation during the second World War, 

 so they know what hunger is all about. And they had 

 a 1973 soybean embargo that the United States 

 imposed on them and that has left a deep, deep scar 

 on the Japanese. And if you talk to them in private, 

 and try to get their real feelings, they say to you that 

 they know what it is to have gone through some hun- 

 ger. They know what it is to have gone through a 

 period when they had a very important commodity 

 taken away from them and not sold to them. There- 

 fore, they do not want to be facing a similar kind of 

 situation 



One of the reasons why they feel very strong about 

 their agricultural products is that they do not want to 

 be under the control of some other nation and I think 

 this embargo thing is a very, very important thing to 

 them, in this particular instance at least. 



(Governor Lamm): Dr Borlaug? 



(Dr Borlaug): I agree with the comments made by 

 the Governor of Hawaii. I think that the soybean case 

 is an excellent example to show that it didn't work 



35 



