120 MY LIFE [Chap. 



knowing the etiquette of such a position, I did not begin con- 

 versation till, I think, the second day, a gentleman and lady of 

 middle age introduced themselves as Mr. and Mrs. Armstrong, 

 and we soon became quite friendly. They had a private sitting- 

 room in the hotel, and I often had afternoon tea with them 

 or spent the evening ; and as they were educated people 

 interested in science and literature, while Mr. Armstrong 

 was a spiritualist, they were very agreeable acquaintances. 

 Through them I was introduced to the other occupants of 

 the table — Judge Holman, with his wife and daughter. The 

 judge was a member of Congress, as representative of Indiana, 

 and we had sometimes long conversations at breakfast or 

 dinner on political questions. One of the most interesting 

 was about the Irish in America. He said, " Why does your 

 Government drive the Irish out of their country by not letting 

 them govern themselves? We find them among our best 

 citizens when they have a chance. I have known and 

 observed them for fifty years. Near me, in Indiana, is a 

 township which was settled about forty years ago by Irish 

 and Germans, all Catholics. The Germans have increased in 

 numbers, the Irish have diminished by emigrating further 

 west and other causes. Many of the Irish have became public 

 men of eminence, and many others rose to good positions. 

 Those that remain farmers cultivate their land as well as the 

 Germans, and show equal industry. Considering the low 

 class of Irish that usually come over, and their extreme 

 poverty as compared with the Germans and other immigrants, 

 it cannot be said that they are at all inferior in industry and 

 in success in life. That is the general experience all over our 

 country. They form a valuable portion of our citizens, yet 

 you English will have it they can't govern themselves, and 

 make that an excuse for keeping them down and driving 

 them to emigrate." That is the substance of his remarks, 

 which I noted down immediately ; and as he was a highly 

 intelligent man, and a good example of the moderate 

 American legislator, his opinion seemed to me especially 

 valuable, and should make our "Unionists" (as they call 

 themselves, but they are really "gaolers") pause in their 



