23 



particularly in Muslim countries. She wasn't awfully 

 bright, but she was very, very determined and a wonderful 

 character, had strength of character and persistence and 

 energy. 



Sharp: Sometimes persistence works just as well. 



Revelle: Exactly, [laughing] I spent many, many hours with her, 

 helping her get through the ropes of the Department of 

 Population Sciences. ## 



They were very reluctant to allow her to be a 

 candidate for a doctorate degree, but eventually they did, 

 and she did get a degree. I used to have sort of an all-day 

 seminar on Saturday for her and two or three other people 

 who were these fellows, talking about population policy and 

 everything we could think of about population. So they got 

 so they were pretty good at it, the students. 



Sharp: Since you had spent all that time in West Pakistan and 



India, by then you knew almost more than anybody else at the 

 center and in the department too, the larger department. 

 You would have a way of understanding what the issues were, 

 how the students could approach them, and really help them 

 pull it all together. 



Revelle: That's right. 



She is now, or at least the last time I saw her, about 

 a year and a half ago, head of Women's Activities for the 

 Pakistan government. When she started there, she started on 

 two programs. One was to teach the women in villages how to 

 sew, and the other was to teach them how to read. 



It turned out that all the women wanted to learn how 

 to sew, but they didn't give a damn about learning how to 

 read! They had nothing to read, and it didn't fit into 

 their patterns of life. It was quite surprising to her, but 

 anyhow that ' s the way it turned out . 



She is still married. Her husband teaches history in 

 the University of Islamabad, the same guy. 



Sharp: So they have a rather unique relationship, very different 

 from what you would expect. 



Revelle: Yes, yes. But she left him for years and years, you see, to 

 get this education. I never did understand, and I still 

 don't understand, her family relationships, but it's typical 

 of the subcontinent that marriage there is a real 

 institution, not just a love affair. 



Sharp: When she came she was always by herself? 



Revelle: Oh yes. She brought her two children with her. 



Sharp: Oh, she did? 



Revelle: Yes. She arrived one night fairly late, about nine o'clock 



