91 



Sharp: 



Just a few days before this operation was to take place, the 

 Mexican government said, "No, you can't do it." We finally 

 found a navy submarine that was going to go off Cortez Bank 

 here and do something instead. So it hasn't worked very 

 well, particularly with Mexico and with the South American 

 countries . 



It has worked very poorly with India, not at all with 

 India. The Indians won't let any foreign vessel do any 

 research in their economic zone. They just refuse consent. 

 They are not supposed to. The Law of the Sea says that 

 ordinarily the coastal state would give its consent. But 

 they ignore that. 



That's one of the interesting things about treaties, 

 that countries don't really follow them; they just do what 

 they want to do. 



And we probably can't do much about the Indians. We 

 can't very well sue them. So they are going to have to do 

 their own oceanography, and they don't do a very good job of 

 it. They are second-rate, third-rate oceanographers for the 

 most part. 



You seem to be sort of puzzled by this whole thing. 



Well, I am. It is political history more than it is almost 

 anything else. There are so many issues that the developing 

 nations have of their own, and scientists, especially from 

 the developed countries, have things that they want to do 

 and are stopped in their projects. 



In some respects it's kind of like it's not the good 

 old days anymore because you don't have the freedom that you 

 did. 



Reveller It's sure not like the good, old days, that's right. 



Sharp: How does Pacem in Maribus fit into all of this as a group? 



Reveller Well, Elisabeth Mann Borgese is the daughter of Thomas Mann. 

 She was married to a University of Chicago professor. I 

 think they have gotten divorced since then. She was with 

 Bob Hutchins ' Center for the Study of Democratic 

 Institutions at Santa Barbara, and they had something called 

 Pacem in Terris — this was about twenty years ago — . So 

 she invented Pacem in Maribus, peace of the seas, thinking 

 that there were lots of ocean issues that were coming up. 



And she was right, 

 believe, was in 1970. 



I didn't realize the first one, I 



Sharp: I think it was. 



Revelle: That was subsequent to a famous speech by a man named Arvid 

 Pardo, who was a Swedish lawyer or scholar. I'm not quite 

 sure what his background is. But he managed to become the 

 ambassador of Malta to the United Nations, not a Maltese at 

 all. In the United Nations he made a famous speech saying 

 that the ocean should be the common heritage of mankind and 



