then you have to get them. There has not been any submarine 

 over which oceanographer s have had full operational control for 

 a long enough time to get it properly equipped and to get every- 

 body really shaken down. 



Undoubtedly, submarines will be used in the future, but nobody 

 has yet been quite bold enough to take on a full-fledged, full-time, 

 non-Navy operated subnnarine; and a full-time. Navy-operated 

 submarine with a small crew is not yet available. 



DR. H. J. McLELLAN (T. A. M. ): A 1, 500-ton ship is not small. 

 Very few of us have had the luxury of going to sea on research 

 vessels of that size. Those are definitely larger ships, and the 

 distinct possibility of having anti-rolling devices on them would 

 make themi palatial compared to what we have been used to. 



DR. W. S. RICHARDSON (WHOI): I think those of us who have 

 been out on trips in the 1, 000- to 1, 500-ton range feel that they 

 are very nearly ideal. When the ships get bigger than that, they 

 can become rather cumbersome. There are things that are 

 hard to do. Some of us would rather enjoy the sunshine and be 

 a little seasick than live all the time on a submarine. 



THE CHAIRMAN: Interestingly enough, the Russians have develop- 

 ed much larger ships. I recall the one I visited in New York last 

 year, a 6,000-ton vessel. They have gone in for much larger 

 ships than we have. Most of our oceanographer s feel that this 

 size is really larger than they would like to have. 



DR. J. L. McHUGH (BCF); The Russians have a submarine 

 which is being used for fishery research. I believe it is in full 

 use all around the year. 



DR. J. L. WORZEL (LGO): There are many operations in 

 geology and geophysics that would be difficult if not impossible 

 to perform on a submarine. I might point out that a submarine 

 would cost probably twice as much to operate as a ship of the 

 same size. 



THE CHAIRMAN: I would like to ask, what kinds of things might 

 be impossible from a submarine? Of course, taking observa- 

 tions of the sun might be a little difficult unless you came to the 

 surface. 



DR. J. L. WORZEL (LGO): I think you would find ocean bottom 



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