79 



point, you have to go perhaps a little bit further to demonstrate your 

 point. 



Mr. Robert Krueger. With your explanation, if there is, in fact, 

 strong State participation in this entity that you propose, about which 

 we know nothing other than your general comments, if there is to be 

 State participation, genuine State direction, a recognition of the State 

 interests, isn't this perhaps what was proposed by the Commission and 

 on which a number of speakers have indicated their views about? 



In short, to quote your own deathless prose, you suggested — I am 

 being facetious — you suggested perhaps a mix of new cliches, urging 

 that we forget the old ones, that we would set up an umbrella to correct 

 the maze. 



Perhaps we have in NOAA the umbrella about which you are 

 speaking. 



Mr. PoRRO. Let me make this clear. I did act as one of the consul- 

 tants to the Commission and am overjoyed, absolutely overjoyed, with 

 their proposals. 



I am dissatisfied and dissent as to one particular point, and that is 

 voluntary participation. As California may and has voluntarily taken 

 'the steps, that is not the pattern throughout the United States. 



I readily admit to the use of words and terminology, perhaps, to 

 : make a point that perhaps better words should be chosen for. _ 



I do not think, however, that you understand, or perhaps it is my 

 fault for not getting an important point across. But I completely agree 

 with the presentation. 



"What I am calling for is a genuine participation, partnership and 

 joint effort. 



Mr. Krueger. I have just a brief reply. I think there is a basic point 

 involved here. Yo do have a very dijSicult clinical situation with which 

 to deal even within the States. 



You speak of a maze. You have a State maze. You have, in many 

 cases, grants of tidal submerged lands being made by the States to 

 local municipalities. New York, for example, has the authority in the 

 Authority of the Port of New York a mass of submerged lands. 



In California, we have done this repeatedly up and down the coast. 

 So you have a very complex political set of problems within the States. 



If you interject the Federal element in dealing with these problems, 

 which are going to be difficult in themselves in setting up a Coastal 

 Zone Authority, then perhaps the whole thing becomes unrealistic. 



I would think that you would start with the grant-in-aid programs, 

 and if there are States, such as California, that are willing to go for- 

 ward with them, that you end it there. 



If there are other States that will not cooperate, that will not form 

 the interstate arrangements which are necessary to meet the purposes 

 of the act, then perhaps go further. But you should first give the States 

 a chance to succeed. 



Thank you. 



Mr. Clingan". If you gentlemen will take your gloves off for a 

 minute, we will recognize another speaker from the floor. 



Mr. King. I am not going to let you off quite so easily, Mr. Porro, 

 because you did not mention North Carolina. 



Mr. PoRRO. Missed again. 



