144 



is something that is kind of next in line, and without that you are 

 in trouble very quickly. You can get ^long for about a month in the 

 wilderness, if you kee]) your wits about vou, without food. You can 

 survive for quite a while. And you need some kind of protection 

 against the eiemcjits or against the adversaries. We have Representa- 

 tives in the House to take care of us on a national scale. 



Then Dr. Wenk referred to, one, the things that we have to worry 

 about, and he nai,ied essentially four things I have to take note of. 

 One was neglect, .diich Dr. Chapman was talking about, ignorance — 

 the educational needs we have, rivalry, and human greed. 



I think in our efforts to achieve the first four we are in that kind 

 of wilderness where we don't recognize the dangers, because they are 

 insidious, we don't know about them for perhaps 20 years after being 

 subjected to them. So we have a new set of standards to be aware of 

 in our modern society. But I think in solving this kind of problem we 

 are talking about today, for a long way in the future, we should look 

 to those four basic needs and at the same time look to see that we 

 don't need these four items : Neglect, ignorance, greed, or rivalry. 



Mr. PoRRO. I think it is very unfair to answer the question that Dr. 

 Kna.uF-s set forth with regard to the recommendation for a new agency. 

 It wns, namelj^, by limiting the answer to the coastal zone. 



I think that the volumes that back up the report dpmonstrate that we 

 are not just talking about the coastal zone when the recommendation 

 of NOAA was put forth, but, a subject matter that was much more 

 that of the oceanographic and atmospheric problems, and so forth. 



I think perhaps if we Avere just to look at the coastal zone alone 

 and sa3" that was the only problem, maybe we could fit it in somewhere 

 in a notch, in a proposed lead agency. 



I think as to many areas of progress that we have witnessed in this 

 country, v:e find that a problem area grows to the degree that all of 

 n sudden everyone starts truthfully waking up to the fact that it 

 needs some particular and special treatment. I think that that is really 

 what is behind the whole report. Therefore, I would like to rephrase 

 Dr. Knauss' question as a result of the answers, and say: Do any of 

 the departments that are represented here today feel tliat the problems, 

 the subject matter that was discussed in tlie report, that their par- 

 ticular department is prepared to take on that task, the overall task 

 of the ocean, the atmosphere problem^, and the coastal zone ? 



Dr. Cr.^pman. That is a oood question. 



Colonel McGfitvness. The answer is no. 



Mr. Traiivt. Or it may be yes. 



Colonel McGuiNNESS. AYehave a clear division of opinion. 



Mr. Tribus. I think the question you are asking puts several of us 

 in a difficult position, because the question will be answered at a level 

 higher than wo are. I think speaking for the Department of Commerce, 

 we would be quite pleased if we were nsked to do this. 



You know, there are about 3 million Federal emplo^-ees. Those of 

 ns who come in to serve as part of the administration attempt to serve 

 as a team, attempt to find the thinijs we should do for the good of the 

 country, and try to persuade all the people who were here before us, 

 and who will he here after many of us are gone, as to what direction 

 we ought to go in. 



Ill that context, I would say that the people in the Department of 



