166 OCEANOGRAPHY 1961 — PHASE 3 



I wonder if there is any validity to this thought— you do depend con- 

 siderably on Congress, whether you are an Executive order agency 

 or otherwise. I wonder if you might not be better off under a statu- 

 tory sanction where you would have a legislative committee to come 

 home to rather than approaching the Appropriation Committee piece- 

 meal through individual agencies. The interest of this committee is 

 very strong and its present leadership will undoubtedly stay that way. 

 Just as you may depart, or 4 years from now there may be some change 

 in the Executive, and the same with regard to individuals on the com- 

 mittee, so a legislative base would give you someplace to come home 

 to. So maj'^be in a sense, rather than any infringement on the Ex- 

 ecutive through this bill, it would actually strengthen the program you 

 want to carry out. Is there anything worth while on that thought ? 



Mr. Wakelin. Yes, there is. May I go back and comment first? 

 I think my remarks were a little more general than in which month 

 we should report to the Congress. My remarks concerned in essence 

 the whole problem in science via the Federal Council on Science and 

 Technology through which we work, and to which we report, and 

 its relationship through the President to the Congress. 



I believe it would be unworkable if we were reporting to you di- 

 rectly prior to the complete approval of the President on our national 

 program. I think by way of reporting to you we should, in the execu- 

 tive branch, be careful that we report to you via the President. In 

 that way the executive branch will have a coherent and cohesive effort 

 to give the Congress, and we will not be bypassing one function in a 

 particular area. Secondly, I do think the many committees to whom 

 we all report present a real difficulty in a coherent oceanographic 

 program. 



For example, I go up to the Committee on Appropriations, Subcom- 

 mittee on Military Appropriations, Mr. Mahon's committee. Our 

 program in oceanography has always received their full support be- 

 cause in so many of the military operations, it is a necessary science 

 that allows us to do our job. I think in other departments it is very 

 difficult for many of the members to get as receptive an audience 

 in their areas. 



In this regard, I think if we could present to one committee of the 

 House and of the Senate, separately, a coherent program for oceanog- 

 raphy, that would be a great help in a national effort. Each one of us 

 goes up in a separate segment, and we have to make sure that each 

 committee knows that their particular program is tied in with all the 

 other agencies that go to different committees. 



Mr. Drewry. That is just what we have been groping for for the 

 past several years, to find some way to do that. I do not believe I 

 can see anything in this bill that would interfere with the relation 

 of the interagency committee, or the council, and the rest of the Presi- 

 dent's scientific program. 



I do not believe I see any objection to the annual report coming 

 from the President rather than the Council itself. The aim is to 

 have a single place from which you can report, because from the 

 appropriation standpoint, I believe most of us, on this side and your 

 side, feel that the appropriation structure is better off as it is, where 

 each agency makes its own approach for funds. 



What we want to do is to see there is a relationship, and there is 

 some single realization and appreciation of that relationship. If there 



