OCEANOGRAPHY 1961 — PHASE 3 169 



the other as we see them of freezing this type of organization in 

 statute. 



It is our judgment with what we believe is assured interest in the 

 Congress, as evidenced by you today and by the existence of your 

 committee, an interest obviously in the scientific community, that the 

 effort that is now taking place in the field of oceanography is assured 

 of continuance. The President, whoever he may be, is not an individ- 

 ual isolated from the Congress and the scientific community, or from 

 the rest of the executive branch. We feel confident as long as the 

 circumstances of national life and scientific life are those that exist 

 today this effort will continue and probably grow. 



Mr. Miller. Of course, I would like to think in the field of the 

 biological phases of oceanography you would have some parallel to 

 the farm problem and to agriculture. Unfortunately, we do not have 

 the sea divided into 40- and 60- and 160-acre plots. 



Mr. Hughes. With quotas. 



Mr. Miller. With a vast push by people interested in making agri- 

 culture work. That has kept it to the forefront of our national life 

 for many years. 



The present drive in oceanography is really a matter of defense. 

 I have never looked into the history of it, but I assume that the 

 National Academy of Sciences had its impetus from the Navy De- 

 partment, in the interest of national defense. I am not positive. 

 Now we are in it. We begin to realize all its ramifications. It has 

 to be a permanent thing if we are going to reap all the benefits we 

 can from the oceans, those things in and on the floor of the ocean. 



Do you think for the foreseeable future this interest will be main- 

 tained at that level ? 



Mr. Hughes. First of all, let me say I do not know the extent to 

 which the scientific interest in oceanography is a byproduct of a 

 national defense interest. From the discussions that I have been a 

 very nontechnical auditor at, I get the impression there has been all 

 along, and there is a growing scientific interest apart from the defense 

 significance of this study. But whether or not that is the case it would 

 seem to me, and I am quite confident it would seem to us as an institu- 

 tion in the Bureau, that the defense interest in this area is not only 

 a current but a continuing thing. 



There are no foreseeable circumstances, to us that is, that will dimin- 

 ish this interest within a time period we can speculate on, or I can 

 speculate on. 



Mr. Miller. I hope you are right. I do not want to give you the 

 impression we are not dedicated men and have not been dedicated 

 men for generations. Even some of the people who did the pioneering 

 work in it did it as a byproduct of their own activities. They were 

 men who made great sacrifices to go out to sea. As I look back, when 

 I was in the State of California Legislature, I remember going down 

 to the University of California and visiting Dr. Lawrence and Dr. 

 Oppenheimer and nobody was very much concerned with splitting 

 the atom. They initiated some of the work out there. They were in 

 the forefront of it. War was the emphasis behind it. 



It is going out into other fields making other contributions, now. 

 I would like to think that may be true of oceanography. I would 

 want to make sure. 



