OCEANOGRAPHY 1961 — PHASE 3 179 



If my recollection of the actions of former Presidents is any good 

 at all, the committee will carry out the will of the President of the 

 United States. Am I correct in that ? 



Mr. Hughes. I am certain the committee would remain a part of 

 the executive branch and would be subject to Presidential guidance. 

 It would remain as essentially an advisory group, a coordinating 

 agent. The question of whether a statutory base for this type of 

 group is warranted and desirable is again a matter of judgment, as 

 Ave see it. The relationship of a statutory group of this sort to the 

 President's Science Advisory Committee is involved in this question. 

 The whole matter of scientific organization has been under study 

 within the Congress as it has been within the executive branch. As 

 we see it, the scales balance a little in favor of flexibility and admin- 

 istrative discretion here, rather than statute, at this point. 



Mr. MiLLEE. For 3 or 4 years we had an ad hoc committee on 

 oceanography. You know that, do you not? What did it accom- 

 plish? 



Mr. Hughes. I am sorry. 



Mr. Mjllee. You know that we had an interagency committee for 

 about 4 years. 



Mr, Hughes. Yes. 



Mr. Miller. Until we got a little emphasis on this and until Con- 

 gress began to take some cognizance of it, too, and then Secretary 

 Wakelin organized the Interagency Committee, what did the old 

 committee ever accomplish ? 



Mr. Hughes. I cannot answer your question in any technical sense. 

 I am certainly aware of the fact that the accomplisliments of the 

 group as presently constituted have been lauded and have been very 

 substantial. 



Mr. MiLLEE. Very highly lauded as presently constituted, but the 

 old committee, I am afraid, did what a good many committees do — 

 they sat down and talked and resolved, and that is all they did, be- 

 cause it was not at high enough level. I do not know whether the bills 

 which were introduced both in the Senate and here, looking to set up 

 a slightly different concept through permanent legislation, had a 

 little goading effect in getting the present committee established. 

 They may not have, but they did not deter it, anyway. It did not hurt 

 the situation any. 



Mr. Hughes. I think that is certainly true, Mr. Chairman. I am 

 sure there will be a continuing evidence of th& interest of this com- 

 mittee and the Congress, 



Mr. Dingell. Mr. Hughes, let us refer to H.E,. 4276. Referring 

 first of all to page 2, let us disregard for the moment the actual estab- 

 lishment of the National Oceanographic Council, which appears to be 

 your principal objection. Let us go down to line 11 on page 2 : 



The Council shall establish a National Oceanographic Data Center or centers. 



That appears to be an entirely desirable purpose and aspect of this 

 legislation, does it not, sir ? 



Mr. Hughes, It has been done, 



Mr. Dingell. It has been done, so we are giving that legislative 

 status. Can you see any loss of flexibility in giving a data center, 

 which probably will have 100 iTiillion IBM file cards and God knows 



