OCEANOGRAPHY 1961 — PHASE 3 223 



to give gi-eat consideration to. Out of your long experience in Gov- 

 ernment, you have been able to make some very constructive sugges- 

 tions, and I am sure that the committee will give them consideration. 



I serve on the Science and Astronautics Committee, along with 

 serving on this committee, and I am familiar with the provisions of 

 the National Space Council and some of the things that have been 

 done to give it vitality. 



As you know, it became ossified at some places up and down the 

 line, and was not allowed to really function. But its necessity is 

 evident, and it is being brought back and given life and will give direc- 

 tion to some of the activities in that field. 



One of the things, as we have gone into this, that struck me, is: 

 Just how long is a program of oceanography going to be with us ? We 

 start out with a 10-year plan. I know in the field of biology this 

 is a day in the life of the history of the world. In other words, this 

 is something that will have to go on and on for a long time, and I am 

 not too certain that we can foresee the time when it will not be neces- 

 sary to have an oceanographic program. 



Eight now we all recognize the Defense Department's great interest 

 in this field, and the necessity for getting certain data just as rapidly 

 as we can in the interest of national defense. But the field is so 

 broad and the problem is so complicated that perhaps we should take 

 a new look at the whole program and accept the fact, just as we have 

 in the case of space, the Space Agency, that we need a permanent 

 establishment of some kind to carry out the unlocking of the secrets 

 of the ocean and the earth sciences generally. 



I have nothing further, other than to thank you for this fine paper 

 and to tell you that it will receive serious consideration. 



I have no questions at this time. 



Mr.Dingell? 



Mr. DiNGELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Professor, I am very much impressed with the thought and care 

 that you have put into this very fine statement you have presented 

 to the committee this morning. 



I am concerned with a number of the things that you have said, and 

 I would like to ask you to elaborate on them if you can. 



The first is on page 1 of your statement, wdiere jon say : 



The various witnesses who have preceded me in these hearings have abundantly 

 demonstrated the problems inherent in the existing fragmented approach to the 

 task of mastering the ocean environment. Although a number of witnesses 

 have referred to the "national program in oceanography," there exists today 

 no agency of Government which can appear before the Congress to testify 

 ■comprehensively and knowledgeably on the progress of the "program" in all 

 of its many ramifications. 



Now I agree with you on that, but one of the problems we have in 

 this committee is that the Bureau of the Budget and the other agencies 

 say that they have an unofficial agency existing under Executive order 

 w^hich is competent to do everything that this bill provides. And I 

 was wondering if you could give me your views on that. 



Professor Lewis. It is partly a matter of competence. I would 

 question, however, whether the unofficial or executively established 

 organization to perform this function is adequately equipped to carry 

 out that responsibility, because it lacks the staff to give it continuhig 



