OCEANOGRAPHY 1961 — PHASE 3 243 



Dr. KoBERTSON. Well, everyone has the opportunity to argue for his 

 proposal, but we try to see to it that there is no logrolling or special 

 interest. 



Mr. Bauer. Doctor, what prompted the National Science Founda- 

 tion to go into the boatbuilding business ? 



Dr. Robertson. Back in 1958, in formulating the budget for fiscal 

 year 1960, we recognized that there was a great need for additional 

 support for oceanographic ships, and included in our budget an 

 oceanographic ship. At that time, studies were being made by the 

 Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution looking toward a ship to re- 

 place the Atlantis. And we had in mind at the time that the first 

 grant for a siiip would probably be made to Woods Hole. 



Mr. Bauer. Now, was your entry into the supplying of oceanogra- 

 phic ships to Woods Hole, we will say, in any way competitive with 

 the Office of Naval Research ? 



Dr. Robertson. No, this was done in full consultation with the 

 Office of Naval Research. In fact, I myself joined the National 

 Science Foundation from the Offi.ce of Naval Research on July 1, 1958, 

 and had the opportunity, therefore, to participate in a sense on both 

 sides of the discussion. This was with full knowledge and collabora- 

 tion with the Navy. 



Mr. Bauer. In other words, we have two agencies, essentially, that 

 supply ships to the nonprofit institutions, the Office of Naval Research, 

 and the National Science Foundation ? 



Mr. Robertson. That is correct. 



Mr. Bauer. Is there any difference in the title of these ships ? 



Dr. Robertson. The Navy builds the ships and retains title, loaning 

 them, essentially, to the oceanographic institutions. Our policy is to 

 make a grant to the institution to build the ship which they want, and 

 to allow them to have title to the ship, with certain restrictions, in- 

 cluding the fact that they must continue to use it for research purposes 

 or return it ; and in the event of emergency, the Government may re- 

 cover title. 



Mr. Bauer. Why do you feel that it is advisable to pass title to these 

 institutions ? 



Dr. Robertson. We feel that the oceanographic research ship is a 

 scientific tool. Our general program of support for facilities and re- 

 search equipment provides that the institution receiving the grant 

 have title to the equipment. This applies to small equipment, to large 

 facility installations, such as computing facilities and nuclear accel- 

 erators for universities and to our program for the development of 

 graduate laboratories, in which we make grants to assist in the pro- 

 vision of laboratory buildings. 



We regard the ships as another facility of this type, which can best 

 be provided to the nonprofit institution. 



Mr, DiNGELL.. Mr. Bauer, would you yield to me ? 



Tell us why it is more in the public interest to give these ships away 

 than to retain title to them on a bailment arrangement with the insti- 

 tution concerned ? Why is the public interest better served by giving 

 away a $5 or $10 million ship ? 



Dr. Robertson. Well, we believe that the scientist should have con- 

 trol of his own tools. 



