246 OCEANOGRAPHY 1961 — PHASE 3 



vising tlie design and construction of their ships and for utilizing 

 them. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Now that is not a valid statement at all, because they 

 can have precisely the same responsibility and the same integrity of 

 purpose and the same skill and knowledge and control of the project 

 and the construction if they get a bailment as if they get an outright 

 grant ; can they not ? Just "yes" or "no." 



Dr. Robertson. Under a bailment? 



Mr. DiNGELL. Yes. You can make bailment on fully as broad and 

 generous terms as you can an outright grant ; can you not ? 



Dr. Robertson. I do not believe so. 



Mr. DiNGELL. I am a lawyer, and I think so. And I would like to 

 get the views of your counsel, who is sitting next to you. 



Mr. Counsel, is that not a fact ? 



Mr. RuTTENBERG. I think you have to put in a few more restrictions 

 if it is Government property. 



Mr. DiNGELL, Well, now, that is a silly statement ; is it not ? 



Mr. RuTTENBERG. No ; I do not think it is. 



Mr. DiNGELL. I think it is, because as a matter of fact, you can make 

 a bailment on any terms in the public interest ; can you not ? 



Mr. RuTTENBERG. But if it is Federal property, there are restric- 

 tions on it. 



Mr. DiNGELL. I would like to have these witnesses back tomorrow, 

 Mr. Chairman. I think we have some more to go over on this point. 



Mr. Miller. Would you be available tomorrow morning ? 



Dr. Robertson. We have a hearing before the Senate Appropria- 

 tions Committee, which Dr. Waterman expects us to attend. 



Mr. DiNGELL. I hope you will address yourself more carefully to 

 the public interest tomorrow before the Appropriations Committee 

 than you have this morning. 



Mr. Miller. Next week or at a time convenient, we may ask you to 

 come back and continue this. I think it is something that is very 

 important. 



Dr. Robertson. We will be glad to appear,, sir. 



Mr. DiNGELL. I would like to have them furnish the committee coun- 

 sel with the authority under which they are making these gifts of these 

 ships. 



Mr. RuTTENBERG. I caii give you that now, Mr. Dingell. The Na- 

 tional Science Foundation Act of 1950 is our basic legislation. 



Mr. DiNGELL. I would like to see the section, and so forth. You 

 can furnish that to counsel. 



Mr. Vanik. How many vessels are involved ? How many have been 

 granted ? 



Dr. Robertson. Two. 



(Whereupon, at 12 : 20 p.m., the subcommittee was recessed, to re- 

 convene at 10 a.m., Thursday, June 22, 1961.) 



