288 OCEANOGRAPHY 1961 — PHASE 3 



Dr. Eemington Kellogg represents iis in oceanographic matters, but, 

 as I said, heis in London attending a meeting and attending to our 

 Nation's interests in whales. 



Mr. Lennon. Do you now have at your high level a member of this 

 Voluntarj^ Inter- Agency Committee ? 



Dr. Carmichael. I will have to supply this information. I do 

 know that Dr. Kellogg has attended most of these Committee meet- 

 ings but whether he has actually been a member or not is a technical 

 question which I am just not in a position to answer. 



Mr. Lennon. Then you do not know whether you are a part of this 

 present Voluntary Committee or not officially ? 



Dr. Carmichael. Mr. Chairman and Mr. Lennon, I do not know 

 the official connection. I do feel that we have been consulted in this 

 matter by the appropriate agency, though. 



Mr. Lennon. This committee was organized a year ago last Janu- 

 ary and it was affirmed in March of 1961 and the list of those members 

 of the committee publicized. 



Here is a list of the committee members. 



Dr. Carmichael. Is our name there ? 



Mr. Lennon. It is not. You are not represented and that is the very 

 thing that concerns us, the fact that this so-called Voluntary Inter- 

 Agency Departmental Committee was bypassing, we thought, the 

 Smithsonian Institution in its invitation to different departments or 

 agencies who had a vital interest in this program and assigning some 

 member at the top level of their staff as a permanent member of this 

 committee. 



Let me ask you this : If we should continue to project a program 

 under a Voluntary Agency Committee, how could the Congress, which 

 has the responsibility for determining the progress of the program, 

 look to anyone for accountability ? To whom should we look ? Should" 

 we go to the Secretary of Commerce ? Should we go to the Smithson- 

 ian Institution? Should we go to the Navy? Should we go to the^ 

 Department of the Interior ? Should we go to the U.S. Coast Guard ? 

 Should we go to the Coast and Geodetic Survey? Should we go to- 

 the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare? Should we 

 go to the Atomic Energy Commission ? 



To whom should we look to determine if this independent agency" 

 is meeting its obligations on the terms of progress in the program for 

 this purely voluntary agency ? 



Dr. Carmichael. Mr. Lennon, it seems to me you have made a very 

 clear and a very good point. It would be difficult for the Congress to 

 have a single point of reference and I presume the committee would 

 have a chairman. I presume the chairman would provide a report and 

 he would be subject to any questions and report to the Congress. 



I must say that as you present it, I see very clearly the other side 

 of the picture. 



Mr. Lennon. We have been privileged since early last year to hear 

 from the agencies and departments I referred to. All of them have an 

 interest in oceanography but their interest is secondary to their prin- 

 cipal or prim.ary objective. 



It differs with every other agency as to whatever its interest in 

 oceanography may be. 



