318 OCEANOGRAPHY 1961 — PHASE 3 



Mr. Lennon. Tliank you very much for that statement. I am sure 

 it will be a workable program if there is such cooperation among the 

 Departments. 



Mr. Paul. Secretaries Udall and Freeman, you will be interested 

 to know, listed the points of conflict between the two Departments, 

 find pesticides was No. 1 on the list. Through the active help of Secre- 

 tary Freeman, who is personally interested in it, I feel we can really 

 make some progress this year. 



Mr. Lennon. I am delighted to hear it. Thank you very much. 



Mr. DiNGELL. I thinlv Mr. Bauer has a question he would like to 

 ask. 



Mr. Bauee. I have only one thought, which is you have the Bureau 

 of Sport Fisheries, whose motivation is sport fishing; you have the 

 Bureau of Commercial Fisheries, whose motivation is the sale and 

 utilization of products of the sea. 



Do you contemplate in the Department of the Interior an}^ organi- 

 zational setup that would have as a motivation the study of basic biol- 

 ogy, per se, without either of those motivations ? I agree you cannot 

 separate them, but would Interior v^ould be the spot to put an active 

 program in basic biology ? 



Mr. Paul,. This is a very interesting question and one that, as you 

 probably know, is being actively studied by Secretary Udall. The 

 whole future role of science and research in the Department of the 

 Interior is being actively considered now. As you are probably 

 aware, the Secretary requested several months ago, shortly after he 

 took office, that he be allowed to add a^ science adviser, a top-level man, 

 to his personal staff to coordinate and help the Department do a better 

 job in this field. 



There have been no studies of direct organization to deal only with 

 pure biology. At present this function falls more into the good hands 

 of Dr. Carmichael of the Smithsonian and the National Science Foun- 

 dation, although as I mentioned briefly, we are definitely extending 

 and expanding our basic biology work, particularly through fellow- 

 ships and grants. We look on this as a logical function, perhaps lim- 

 ited by funds, but one we are quite interested in and active in. It 

 would be hard for me to give a definite answer as to the desirability of 

 a new organization within the Department strictly for biology 

 research. 



I am, like most people, inclined to think the great pool of knowl- 

 edge in this field is in the academic institutions outside of Govern- 

 ment perhaps, and that to get the best results we should tap this pool 

 in the best way we can. 



Mr. Bauer. That is all, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Lennon". Who testified for the Department of the Interior 

 this year before this particular Subcommittee on Oceanography ? Do 

 you recall ? I am talking about this calendar year. 



Mr. P^uL. Perhaps Dr. McHugh knows. Have we testified di- 

 rectly before the committee ? 



Mr. McHuGH. We have not testified before the committee yet. 



Mr. Lennon. Since no one has testified, a.nd we have a few minutes, 

 the Chairman of this Interagency Committee on Oceanography testi- 

 fied that in his opinion — he was not too strong oji it — in his opinion the 

 establishment by statute of this particular National Oceanographic 

 Council was not necessary and that we could continue to operate 



