OCEANOGRAPHY 1961 — PHASE 3 339 



Mr. Lennon. Proceed, please, Mr. Bauer. 



Mr. Bauer. Thank you, sir. 



Now, with respect to these ships how many ships do you have in 

 your budget in fiscal 1962 ? 



Dr. Robertson. In fiscal 1962, we included funds to complete a 

 second large oceanographic ship. That was the only specified ship, 

 I believe. The funds are available for oceanographic facilities and 

 the actual grants would depend on the proposals received. 



Dr. Bolt. Dr. Wilson would also like to comment on another ship 

 for biological oceanography, a smaller vessel. 



Dr. Wilson. In our fiscal 1962 budget for biological and medical 

 sciences, we have made provision for the possibility of a vessel at 

 Scripps Institution, a biological vessel in the amount of approximately 

 a half million dollars. It is a small ship. 



Mr. Bauer. That brings up a rather interesting point. In your 

 testimony before the House Appropriations Subcommittee on your 

 fiscal 1962 budget, Dr. Robertson testified as follows: 



We looked very hard at the problem of converting existing ships for use as 

 oceanographic research vessels and they are just not satisfactory. The major 

 diflSculty is that the ones that have the necessary space are so expensive to 

 operate that in the long run it is better and cheaper to build your own ships 

 and have exactly the facility you want. 



How do you reconcile the fact that you have granted Stanford 

 University $400,000-odd to convert a ship for oceanographic purposes 

 with that philosophy ? 



Dr. Robertson. We look at each case on its merit. 



Mr. Bauer. I am talking about the ship. 



Dr. Wilson. I think probably, Mr. Bauer, that the issue here is a 

 fundamental difference between ships that are primarily used for 

 biological work and ships which are used either exclusively for physi- 

 cal oceanography or for general purposes. The kind of ship I was 

 talking about for biological and medical sciences is 100 feet lon^ 

 and when he was making that statement, I think he had in mind 

 vessels of much larger magnitude. The vessel at Stanford that you 

 are referring to is a schooner that originally was owned and is still 

 owned, as a matter of fact, by the Vanderbilt Foundation. The 

 Vanderbilt Foundation is an institution that is located on the Stan- 

 ford campus and does ichthyological research. Commodore Vander-" 

 bilt, prior to his death, wished to give the schooner, the Pioneer^ to 

 Stanford as a gift. Stanford was willing to accept it under the 

 condition that they could raise funds to modify the vessel for primar- 

 ily biological oceanography training and research. This vessel is not 

 of a size that Woods Hole is interested in for general oceanographic 

 research. It is satisfactory from the point of view of graduate train- 

 ing, doctoral research, and staff research in biological oceanography. 

 I think it would not be considered satisfactory by physical oceanog- 

 raphers whose equipment is much heavier. 



Mr. Bauer. On the question of size of the ship, and whether it 

 would be satisfactory or not, is it not correct that the schooner in 

 question is 172 feet long ? 



Dr. Wilson. That is right. 



Mr. Bauer. And your Woods Hole vessel started at $3 million and 

 now is up to $5 million and no one knows what it will actually cost. 



