344 OCEANOGRAPHY 1961 — PHASE 3 



Mr. RuTTENBERG. Reconveyance, 



Mr. Drewry. Not a reconveyance, but a conveyance. You never 

 had it. 



Mr. RuTTENBERG. That is true. Wehave just given them the money. 



Mr. Drewry. Then you said they would be reimbursed for costs 

 which they themselves have put into it. I suppose if they had financed 

 certain changes or improvements they would be reimbursed for that, 

 or if they had special equipment that had become essentially part of 

 the vessel, then they would be reimbursed for that. Then, I believe 

 you said, "And such other compensation that might be agreed 

 upon." 



Mr. RuTTENBERG. Such other costs as may in the judgment of the 

 agency be deemed equitable. In other words, that is to cover unantic- 

 ipated things which, in our judgment, we feel we should pay. This 

 does not mean we have to pay anything at all. 



Mr. Drewry. Could they not claim that "since you are taking our 

 ship, we think it is equitable that we be reimbursed for the value of 

 it because we no longer have it" ? 



Mr. RuTTENBERG. They could say that, but under the terms of the 

 grant, we decide, and I am sure we would decide against that point 

 of view. 



Mr. Drewry. This is a question that has come up several times re- 

 cently, as to what the present individuals may fully intend and would 

 carry out, if they were still around and what the picture might be 

 when a new crowd comes in. 



Mr. RuTTENBERG. Of couTse, the wording of this is "in the judg- 

 ment of the agency," so I am clear that it would be our judgment that 

 there would be no compensation for the ship as such other than the 

 things we mentioned. 



Mr. Drewry. They could dispose of it. 



Mr. RuTTENBERG. They cannot dispose of this ship without our 

 permission. 



Mr. Drewry. Without your permission ? 



Mr. RuTTENBERG. That is correct. 



Mr. Drewry. But you can give them permission to dispose of it? 



Mr. RuTTENBERG. Yes, we could. 



Mr. Drewry. Since you have no further strings on it if they dis- 

 posed of it then the proceeds of the sale of the ship, for instance, 

 would go to the institution ? 



Mr. RuTTENBERG. You mean if they did that without following 

 the conditions of the grant ? 



Mr. Drewry. No; they come to you and say, "We no longer need 

 this ship. The developments in oceanography are such that this is 

 not quite the right type. We would like to sell it." I do not imagine 

 that you would insist that they keep something that they do not need, 

 would you ? 



Mr. RuTTENBERG. No. We might wish, however, to give it to some- 

 one else rather than allow them to sell it. It would depend on the 

 circumstances. 



Mr. Drewry. How could you enforce that ? 



Mr. RuTTENBERG. We have a clause that says that if it ceases to be 

 used primarily for basic research then we can get it back. 



Mr. Drewry. Without cost? 



