346 OCEANOGRAPHY 1961 — PHASE 3 



Mr. Miller, Or even in the field of science. 



Dr. Robertson. Our position is that the facilities for research to be 

 done by universities and nonprofit institutions can best be done by 

 their having their own facilities. 



Mr. Miller. I believe that they can do it, but I question and have 

 some reservation whether, in order to get the universities or the scien- 

 tific institutions to do this work, we have to make large grants of 

 physical equipment or to make them outright grants of this equip- 

 ment. 



Suppose we build this ship for Woods Hole. They may use it for 

 the next 4 or 5 years and then a situation comes about where we want 

 some work done in the Pacific Ocean not too far south and Scripps 

 is in a very fine position. Will we be able to say then, "Well, now, 

 we are going to take this ship, turn it over to Scripps and clo the 

 work," or is Woods Hole going to say, "No ; we still have some work." 

 It might be minor. Is Woods Hole goina: to cooperate and say, "We 

 will let go of this"? I should not use Woods Hole. I will say in- 

 stitution A, and institution B needs it. Is institution A going to 

 give it up or is it going to be the usual thing that takes place in all 

 institutions or any agency of government from county up to the Na- 

 tional Government ; once you get your hands on something you fight 

 to retain it and never let go of it ? 



Dr. Bolt. Mr. Miller, if I may comment on this, I believe this gets 

 to the heart of the basic philosophy of the Science Foundation and 

 why the Government established it. 



First, I would like to mention, of course, that any given ship can 

 be used by and large to do almost any given measurement on any 

 given day. We are talking about a broader, long-range kind of thing 

 here. The Navy has a certain ultimate mission. It does many things 

 to feed and support this mission, but when the chips are down, it 

 has a certain responsibility. 



The Coast and Geodetic Survey has another kind of responsibility. 

 Each agency has a certain ultimate responsibility. The Foundation 

 has been set up with an ultimate responsibility not of these other 

 mission types, but of insuring that our fundamental science research 

 and science education is strong. If we really mean this, we must 

 assure that our educational institutions, including the ones that give 

 education and training in oceanography and the biological oceano- 

 graphic sciences, and so on, are strong and have the maximum ability 

 to do their basic mission properly over the long haul, and it is really 

 in keeping with this broader philosophy that we come to the conclu- 

 sion we do. 



This is not to say that it is not wise for the Navy to do it one way, 

 because in the last analysis, they need to insure that they can fulfill 

 their Navy rnission, and having title to their ships gives them an 

 added protection, and similarly for Coast and Geodetic Survey. But 

 we feel that given these safeguards, such that in time of emergency 

 the Government can get the ship back, short of a national emergency, 

 we should do all we can to give the academic institutions the utmost 

 opportunity to plan long-range programs, educational and research 

 programs, using their equipment and facilities of all kinds, including 

 vessels, and we do not see vessels as any different from a linear 

 accelerator or a cyclotron, or a darkroom in this connection. 



