SEA GRANT COLLEGES 171 



Dr. Robertson. It would. It would widen our mandate in this 

 particular field just as it ^yas \Yidened when we were assigned respons- 

 ibility for weather modification where we may support both basic and 

 applied research. 



I would also say that I agree with jou, sir, that this program requires 

 something beyond the project type of suppoi-t. It requires 

 in my opinion the same kind of support that we have provided to 

 selected academic institutions through our science development pro- 

 gram where we have invited institutions to submit proposals which 

 would permit them to strengthen their science programs across the 

 board. We have made grants up to $4 million or $5 million for 3 years 

 to assist these institutions to move to a stronger position in science. 



I believe that the objectives of your act would probably best be met 

 if we invited institutions to submit a proposal which would enable them 

 to move strongly into this field across the board in both basic and ap- 

 plied areas, including the education of scientists, and the setting up 

 of new groups. These broad proposals, which would ha^-e to be sub- 

 stantial in size, should be judged competitively, and those vs-ho can pre- 

 sent the best plan should be selected as sea grant institutions and given 

 grants of a broad nature to enable them to move ahead in this broad 

 field. 



Senator Pell. What I am concerned with, and I have the greatest 

 respect for your work and the academic community I am, I guess, 

 a frustrated teacher myself, but the problem I foresee in the National 

 Science Foundation is with emphasis upon the development of scientific 

 knowledge, the development of a larger number — I remember the argu- 

 ments after sputnik — the number of Ph. D's we are getting in the scien- 

 tific world. It is completely counter to the object of this bill. This 

 bill is supposed to be to help get more fellows going into the fish busi- 

 ness. We have a program for 2 years of training of youngsters so 

 they can go on fishing boats. It is to have a greater development of use 

 of the crabs, greater use of trash fish, and I am not sure that your 

 purposes are terribly important for the national interests but are a 

 little bit too high or esoteric, somewhat like asking a portrait painter 

 to be a wall painter. 



Dr. Robertson. Well, I believe, sir, that in this broad field the 

 several agencies which have applied missions, such as the Department 

 of Defense in its particular area or the Department of Interior in 

 areas such as commercial fisheries, each should pursue its program 

 aimed at exploiting the resources in the seas aromid us, and they 

 should do this in every way possible, including contracts with indus- 

 try, and other methods aimed at developing the kind of systems of 

 exploitation that are needed. 



I feel the role that the National Science Foundation can well play 

 in a joint enterprise among several Government agencies is in relation 

 to the universities and to the education and the research, both basic 

 and applied, which those universities will be doing to undergird the 

 total program. We cannot call on our universities to do the final 

 engineering systems development which only industry can do. 



Senator Murphy. Dr. Robertson, forgive me, but you are getting me 

 confused, I thought what we were concerned with was setting up 

 something like the Colorado School of Mines, if I may oversimplify, 

 where young men can go and begin to learn, and after they have 



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