SEA GRANT COLLEGES 189 



limits, allowing the administering agency to manage the program 

 according to tlie merits of the proposals received. Traditionally, the 

 Science Foundation reacts to these proposals after they are received, 

 and can better formulate its planning on the basis of the nature of 

 the proposals themselves, in terms of their scientific merit, the capac- 

 ities, the alreeady recognized facilities of the agency or the institu- 

 tion in question, and the proven work or reputations of the investi- 

 gators within those institutions. 



Senator Pell. You are not thinking that the money authorized 

 in this bill should be just turned over to the National Science Foim- 

 dation to be allocated between a variety of its programs, are you ? 



Mr. Abel. As Captain Snyder stated, the National Science Founda- 

 tion would also acknowledge roles to be played by Interior, by Com- 

 merce, by HEW, Smithsonian, and Navy, and would react, based 

 partly on their influence and advice. 



Senator Pell. Right. But my basic question is. What would be 

 the cost to the taxpayer of the enactment of this bill if we do not re- 

 late it to the rents and royalties for the first 5 years, in your view ? 



Captain Snyder. This is a function of the total numbers of centers 

 of excellence that you would have. You can get a ballpark figure 

 by, for example, wdiat does it cost to run Scripps or Woods Hole, or 

 depending on what you really envision, it costs you approximately 

 a million dollars a year to run an oceanographic vessel, and Scripps 

 and Woods Hole budgets are between $6 and $8 million a year. And 

 smaller institutions run between $2 and $5 million a year. And 

 your advisory services, much simiar probably to the Department of 

 Agriculture in its 



Senator Pell. What I am really driving at here is wdiat sort of 

 figure would fall within the guidelines of acceptability to the admin- 

 istration from the viewpoint of the budget? Do we talk in terms of 

 $10 million a year, $25 million a year ? Would you hazard a thought ? 

 I had tied it in originally, you see, to the rents and royalties which 

 gave the specific amount, probably in the neighborhood of $15 million 

 a year. I am very interested in your thinking since you are in touch 

 with both the administration, and the Bureau of the Budget, what sort 

 of figure they are thinking about. 



Mr. Abel. Speaking in terms of allocations that the Science Foun- 

 dation and other sponsoring agencies will give to some of these major 

 institutions and, of course, it is going to vary, and depending on the 

 number of institutions that come in with proposals, I would suggest 

 that a minimum of $10 or $15 million woud be required to get the 

 program off the ground the first year. 



It is a guess on my part, without interviewing the institutes them- 

 selves. 



Senator Pell. Right. But, then, as one said, if we made an author- 

 ization of say, $15 million, $20 million a year, for the first 5 fiscal years, 

 that would be acceptable to the administration? Not as a minimum 

 but as an approximate figure. 



Mr. Abel. I would have to defer to a statement from the Bureau 

 of the Budget. 



Senator Pell. Right. This is what we need. This is the hard core 

 of trying to promote this bill's passage, because I know how imjior- 

 tant it is to have the administration's support and approval. Not only 



