244 SEA GRANT COLLEGES 



The administration mnst be ^Yitll an agency whose ideas are in 

 concordance with you bill. I am a great admirer of the National 

 Science Foundation and I think that the money the United States has 

 put into the National Science Foundation lias returned immense bene- 

 fits. But unless the charter of the National Science Foundation is 

 greatly altered, this is not the place to put the administration of 

 this bill. 



Senator Pell. To interrupt, Doctor, the National Science Founda- 

 tion's point is that if this bill was passed and they were given this re- 

 sponsibility, that in itself would alter their terms of reference. 



Dr. Idyll. Of course. But the frustration I mentioned earlier, 

 one of long standing, is that when institutions like my own put in re- 

 search projects which are of an applied nature, or in fact if the or- 

 ganism on which it is proposed to work is one of economic importance, 

 the National Science Foundation very properly, under its charter, 

 says that they cannot support it. Unless this is changed — and as you 

 say, in your bill it would be changed — the National Science Founda- 

 tion cannot handle the sea grant colleges. 



Furthermore, however, even though the bill provides for a change 

 in the charter, I think the philosophy of the National Science Foun- 

 dation must also be changed. In talking to some of the National 

 Science Foundation people I find that they, in fact, do recognize this 

 weakness, and I think that philosophy of the organization could be 

 changed. But under the present terms of their charter, the National 

 Science Foundation is not the place for it. 



In my printed testimony, I have suggested the Department of the 

 Interior. I also have tremendous admiration for the people who 

 operate the Department of the Interior. I think they are some of the 

 most dedicated j^ublic servants in the Government. I think their 

 philosophy is of the kind that I think is required in this kind of bill. 



At the present time I favor putting it in the Department of the In- 

 erior because this is their function. Their terms of reference are to 

 translate the research on the ocean into the production of more food 

 and more consumables, more energy, and so on. 



However, it is unimportant whether it is put in the Department of 

 the Interior or the National Science Foundation provided the phil- 

 osophy behind your bill is well recognized by the people who admin- 

 ister the funds. "Wliat you said earlier, of course, applies to all human 

 endeavors: It is not the system, it is who runs it; it is a question of 

 background, of philosophy; it is a question of attitude. 



The next point that I would like to discuss is how many institutions 

 and what kind of institutions should become sea grant colleges. It 

 would be a great pity if the money were divided evenly among 50 

 States or even half that many States, because its impact would be 

 completely lost. It will require considerable amounts of money for an 

 effective sea grant college. 



This is not to say that there should be no support whatsoever for 

 universities who are not now engaged in this work or are engaged in 

 it in a small way. I think the idea of dividing the money into two parts 

 where there would be some institutions with large grants to implement 

 and expand present oceanographic programs in a useful way would 

 be very helpful. At the same time, if money were to be given to in- 

 stitutions which have a small program, or which would like to have a 



