AO MARINE SCIENCE 
Also, I thoroughly agree with what you have to say about the budget 
situation. é f 
Dr. Cuarman. If there is anything that I have said that is offensive 
to the budget officers, it is because I meant it. This is the hardest row 
we havetohoe. Budget officers don’t mind spending words; they don’t 
like to spend money. They talk and talk oceanography but when it 
comes down to the hard bone of it, you are laying up research ships 
instead of putting them to sea. I can give you a half dozen examples 
on the Pacific coast where it has been done in the last 5 years. 
The Cuarrman. Let me ask you one thing: You are familiar with 
our research fleet, 
Dr. CHarMAn. Yes, sir. 
The Cuarrman. In fisheries and in oceanography. Would it be a 
fair statement to say that it is in about the worst condition of any 
nation engaged in this field ? 
Dr. CuapmMaNn. It is in worse condition than it was 5 years ago. 
The Cuarrman. And in worse condition than it was 5 years ago? 
Dr. Cuapman. Yes, sir. Let me give you an example. We stole 
a boat off Senator Smathers. We had two research vessels working 
in the Gulf of Mexico. We have one working in the State of Calli- 
fornia. The reason for this is that the bottom fell out of our research 
ship. We just couldn’t fix it up in the State of California. So the 
Bureau of Commercial Fisheries didn’t have the money to operate 
two vessels in your area, Senator Smathers, and were kind enough 
to loan one of those vessels to the State of California. We fixed it 
up and are using it in the State of California. That leaves you one 
short. 
In the State of Hawaii they had three vessels working out there. 
One of them they put out of commission entirely, the Manning. The 
second one they didn’t have money to operate it, the Smzth. She has 
been donated for the time being to the Scripps Institution of Ocean- 
ography because the Bureau of Commercial Fisheries didn’t have 
the money to operate it. © 
We have the Black Douglas, an old beatup yacht from prewar days, 
made over, and she is being used about two-thirds of the time now 
because there isn’t money for it. You talk about the scarcity of 
oceanographers. The oceanographers have to act as crew because 
they haven’t money to hire crews. They operate on such a basis. It 
is a shameful situation. 
The Cuarrman. Do you have any further questions? 
Senator SmarHErs. No. You have made a very good witness. 
The Cuarrman. Thank you, Dr. Chapman. 
(Dr. Chapman’s statement follows:) 
STATEMENT oF W. M. CHarPMAN, Director, THE RESOURCES COMMITTEE, 
San Dirco, Cair. 
My name is W. M. Chapman. I am director of the resources committee, 1 
Tuna Lane, San Diego, Calif. I am here representing views from the southern 
California fishing and fish processing industry with respect to the Marine Sci- 
ences and Research Act of 1961, S. 901. 
Although our industry is situated and headquartered in southern California, 
units of it operate over a considerable section of the world oceans and are situ- 
ated in several countries located on four continents and in Oceania. 
Tuna fishing vessels from southern California operate regularly in the eastern 
Pacific, in season, from the State of Oregon on the north to northern Chile on 
