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DISCUSSION: Columbus O'D. Iselin 



In the study of North Atlantic circulation we are finding that the law of 

 diminishing returns has begun to set in, so far as conventional observations are 

 concerned. A few thousand more deep temperature and salinity stations are not 

 likely to provide much additional understanding, unless supplementary, new 

 types of data are secured simultaneously. Thus at Woods Hole we feel that 

 buoys hold considerable promise of filling some of our pressing needs and that 

 their development should be pursued as vigorously as available funds permit. 



The great advantage of a buoy is that it can secure a continuous record 

 over a considerable period of time. The longer the life of the buoy, in most 

 applications, the greater will be the returns. This means that the buoy must 

 continue to function during periods of stormy weather. Either the buoy case 

 must be rather large or it must be submerged below the depth of effective wave 

 action. 



Surface buoys are attractive in that they can store or transmit both me- 

 teorological and oceanographic observations. What is the optimum shape for 

 such a buoy and how large must it be in order to ride out a gale? On the conti- 

 nental shelf the experience with navigation buoys is more or less applicable, but 

 only cable ships occasionally set buoys in deep water and then for only rather 

 short periods of time. It seems likely that a successful surface buoy must dis- 

 place at least a ton. It should probably be shaped like a hydrometer and would 

 therefore have very considerable vertical dimensions. The weakness of such a 

 design may be that in strong winds too often a moored buoy will tow under. The 

 very data that such a buoy could secure is needed before a convincing design 

 study could be made. Much the same is true of the mooring problem. We can 

 only guess at the depth and velocity of the transitory currents that the buoy will 

 experience. 



For these reasons it seenns only prudent to approach the open ocean buoy 

 problem rather cautiously, although it is in deep water that the greatest scien- 

 tific returns can be expected. Experience with unmoored buoys and with buoys 

 anchored on the continental shelf will probably indicate the most desirable 

 characteristics of a combined meteorological and oceanographic buoy for deep 

 water. If such a buoy could supplement or substitute for weather ships a very 

 considerable engineering effort would be justified. By experimenting with 

 smaller and more limited buoys oceanographers can perhaps show how feasible 

 the more elaborate, all purpose, moored observational platform would be. 



DISCUSSION: Richard H. Fleming 



I have been asked to comment on Mr. von Arx's paper, although circum- 

 stances made it impossible for me to attend the symposium. After long and 

 hard thought about what I might say, I have decided that any suggestions or ideas 

 that were sufficiently radical or provocative would undoubtedly start an argu- 

 nment and that in this case I should be present in person to defend myself. Hav- 

 ing thus alibied myself, I would like to say that the possibility of employing 

 self-recording or telemetering buoys has been on my mind for many years and 

 in future developments in oceanography I am positive that such devices will be 

 used to an ever-increasing extent. The mianpower in oceanography is so limit- 

 ed that we must employ every means at our disposal to reduce the labor of data 

 collection and, as Mr. von Arx has pointed out, buoys can be used in certain 

 cases to greater advantage than ships. The one thing that always worries me 

 in proposals of this kind is the cost in man-hours involved in the development, 

 construction and use of such equipment. All of us miust consider very carefully the 



