NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 145 



But that doesn't mean that we close the door on that. At least we 

 move forward until we can get to a day closer when if this becomes 

 desirable we can do that. 



Therefore, I believe for all of these reasons H.K. 5654 is a practical 

 approach at this time. 



Mr. Chairman, one final word. I advocate the principle — Govern- 

 ment agencies should be given increased capacity to perform their 

 oceanographic missions. I likewise stress with equal vigor that uni- 

 versity laboratories and research institutes should be given the re- 

 sponsibility of performing and supporting basic research in oceanog- 

 raphy. 



We talk about programs. We talk about budgets. We talk about 

 new equipment. We talk about new facilities. But we have to keep 

 our eye on the ball because what progress takes is highly trained, 

 skilled men to make all of these facilities and equipment work. It 

 seems to me that we must have the trained and skilled people as a 

 condition precedent to any kind of expanded oceaographic program 

 at the national level. 



Obviously no clear cleavage is possible between the roles of support- 

 ing basic research and the other things that are necessary in oceanog- 

 raphy. They merge and meet imperceptibly so that each kind of 

 agency must have the capacity to do both, but none the less it seems 

 useful to define the basic roles that way. 



Also the question of duplication arises. There is too much research 

 to be accomplished to allow duplication to exist, but it is not a simple 

 principle to apply either. Wliat might be regarded on casual inspec- 

 tion to be wasteful duplication might in fact be necessary cross-check- 

 ing of experimental finds, an integral part of the scientific method. 



To distinguish between duplication and necessary crosschecking re- 

 quires the most active kind of cooperation. You would either have to 

 put the entire responsibility in one agency or have the kind of high 

 level coordination and cooperation we are talking about and which is 

 inherent in this bill. This duplication determination requires the 

 highest level of cooperation and coordination not only inside of gov- 

 ernment, but between government, unversities and research institutes. 



Without that we wouldn't accomplish very much. 



In the enthusiasm for increasing the tempo of oceanographic and 

 fishery research in the United States, involving massive new programs, 

 I want to emphasize again that we need men, and trained scientists are 

 not now available in the numbers necessary to staff existing programs, 

 much less expanded programs. 



Universities are faced with the necessity of training oceano^raphers 

 and fishery scientists at rates far above the past, and these miiversities 

 must be given the capability to do this heavy task, I would hope that 

 in the charter which is laid out that this point is clearly recognized 

 and emphsisized. 



Training in such complex professions as these must be at the 

 graduated level. This is expensive. It has been estimated that the 

 cost is about $5,000 per year to train oceangraphers, about the same 

 as to train a medical student, and of course this is because of the elab- 

 orate equipment necessary and boat charters run anywhere from 

 $1,000 to $2,000 a day. 



