NATIONAL OCBANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 163 



Mr. Lennon. And, in addition thereto, it designates also as mem- 

 bers of the Comicil the Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare, 

 in the Cabinet, and the Director of the Office of Science and Technol- 

 ogy, the Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission, the Director of 

 the National Science Foundation, and the Secretary of the Smithso- 

 nian Institution. 



Now, the bill that same over here, S. 944, and I assume that since 

 your bill was identical with that when you introduced it, the amend- 

 ments that have been added to the Senate bill provide for a Commis- 

 sion on Marine Science, Engineering, and Resources to assist the Presi- 

 dent and the Council that is enmnerated in your bill, of 15 members, 

 5 representatives from Government, 5 from industry, and 5 from uni- 

 versities, institutions, and laboratories engaged in marine science, and 

 so forth, and provides for per diem of $100 a day, $100 per diem for 

 these Commission members when they are actually serving. 



Do you think that, in your opinion, there is a justification for a 

 commission as provided for in Senate bill 944 ? 



Mr. HuoT. Of course, I haven't studied that yet, as I don't have 

 it, but I would assume that, judging from what you say, the members 

 that were being part of this Commission, I would assume that these 

 were intended to be of an advisory capacity. 



Mr. Lennon. Well, I would tliink so, and I think it is an after- 

 thought on the part of the committee over there, that since their bill 

 and your bill provide only for counsel in the office of the President 

 at the Cabinet level with 6 exceptions, that in order to diffuse it in to 

 get into the universities and laboratories and the private sector of 

 our economy engaged in oceanographic material, that that is perhaps 

 the reason why they added this 15-man Commissiion at the advisory 

 level to the Council, itself. 



Now, something was said by Mr. Casey about whether or not your 

 bill, and the same question would be directed to tthe Senate bill, as to 

 whether or not it provided some grants to laboratories or any of the 

 universities or what-not who might be engaged in any one of the many 

 facets of oceanography. I do not believe that either your bill or the 

 Senate bill 944 provides for grant, does it ? 



Mr. HuoT. In the bill, itself, it does not provide for grants. We 

 would assume, we would hope, that this Council, once established 

 would provide later on for funding, but this is a point of getting 

 started, and establishing this. 



Mr. Lennon. I know, but wouldn't it be necessary for additional 

 authorization legislation to be passed before that Council or that Com- 

 mission under this bill would have the authority to make any grants 

 whatever ? A grant can't be made unless there is legislative authority 

 for it. At least, I hope not. It should not be done, but I suspect 

 sometimes it is done under the cover of some other language in the 

 bill, and I know, too, that your bill provide for — it is an openhand 

 authorization, but it provides that not exceeding the sum of a half a 

 million dollars shall be appropriated in any fiscal year for the opera- 

 tion of the Council. 



Now, the Senate bill had raised that to a million dollars, on an 

 annual basis, but put a limitation of a million on any one year, and 

 it, too, does not provide for the authorization for grants to any of these 

 things that we have been discussing, and it also, I notice, gives a target 



