172 NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 



Mr. Lennon. Are you finished, Congressman ? 



Mr. Pelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Lennon. Go ahead, Mr. Drewry. 



Mr. Drewry. Mr. Wilson, I would like to get your thoughts on some- 

 thing which I suppose we can't very well ask the agencies for. If we 

 do, we get a somewhat shy, holdback type of an answer. The question 

 is, that as things stand at the present time, wouldn't you say a part, of 

 the problem lies not only with the proliferation of agencies, but the 

 proliferation of committees that have something to do with all this? 

 We hear that the ICO program will be worked out as well as it can 

 be, and then when the different agencies go to separate appropriations 

 committees, each one of which appears to be reasonably autonomous,, 

 they say they are asked, for examples, "Can you justify all this million 

 dollars for your agency?" 



And the answer may be, "We can only justify $500,000 of it for our 

 agency, but the other $500,000 is part of a coordinated program,'' to 

 which there may be a reply, "Well, we are only concerned with your 

 agency, not Avith any coordinated program which is somebody else's 

 responsibility." 



Isn't that part of your problem, at the present time ? 



Mr, Wilson. There is no question about it. The fact that it is 

 not only divided downtown, but it is divided on Capitol Hill, the 

 interest and the responsibility, and it should not be, in an area like 

 this. Imagine what would happen to development of agriculture if 

 you had agriculture going to nine different agencies for various 

 programs, one for wheat and one for soil conser^^ation, and so forth. 

 You would have a real hodgepodge. 



But the point is that the advocates of agriculture have certainly not 

 only the champion in the Department, but they have got a committee 

 up here that is knowledgeable on their total problem. When a problem 

 comes up, they can either knock it down or support it, and I will say 

 flatly that oceanography, including the Fisheries Department and 

 the farming of fish, if you want to call it that, has more prospects for 

 the future good of this country than even agriculture has. Unless 

 we can get a meaningful program, and I don't mean by that a few 

 million more than we are spending, I mean in terms of billions of 

 dollars going into this area, we are going to suffer from it. 



We could make money for the Government, actually, if it were done 

 properly in research programs that could be sponsored by an agency 

 that had a prime responsibility in this field. 



Mr. Drewry. Short of your single agency, what would be your 

 thoughts about the effectiveness of having an authorization legislation 

 each year for an oceanographic program ? Would that help to bring- 

 the problem to home to a single place in the Congress? 



Mr. Wilson. Well, I would think you would need some sponsoring 

 group to do it. If you mean perhaps the Office of Science and Tech- 

 nology requesting it, and then deciding on grants, that might be the 

 next step. I do think that you are going to have to get some single 

 overall responsible bureau or department or Government independent 

 group that has its own complete structure. You have got to get some 

 kind of a group, requesting appropriations and authorizations from 

 the committees up here before you get very much done. 

 Mr. Drewry. They focus at both ends of the street. 



