248 NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 



Mr. Downing. Well, I will tell you. A shipyard in my hometown 

 has gone out on its own and equipped an oceanographic vessel which 

 is now operating off the coast of Florida, and they believe they can 

 recover manganese in commercial quantities, but I think the Gov- 

 ernment should have done that long ago. 



Off the record. 



Dr. HoLLOMON. Well, I will put this off or on the record. 



The real question here is whether it is cheaper to get manganese 

 out of the ocean or out of the earth. That is the real question, and 

 this is a decision which you have to make with respect to the private 

 sector of the economy, largely. Now, if it isn't cheaper and more 

 effective to do that, then you don't want to do it just because it is in 

 the ocean, do you ? 



Mr. KoGERS. Would the gentleman yield just a minute for a ques- 

 tion there ? 



Now, you are surely not taking this position, that because it may 

 be expensive now that we should not do it. 



Dr. HoLLOMON. Oh, no. 



Mr. KoGERS. We would never have flown the airplane, simply be- 

 cause it would have been cheaper to go by horse at the time. 



Dr. HoLLOMON. Oh, no. 



Mr. KoGERS. And this is about the attitude that we are getting 

 from the governmental departments. 



Dr. HoLLOMON. I don't think that is so. 



Mr. Rogers. And this is what is upsetting to me. No; no. It is 

 too expensive to get manganese — or whatever it is. 



Dr. HoLLOMON. Whatever it is ? [Laughter.] 



Mr. Rogers. Out of the ocean and, therefore, we won't even try, 

 or experiment. 



Dr. HoLLOMON. Mr. Rogers, I suggested that there is a need to 

 have an agency responsible for the determining that necessary work 

 on explormg the ocean for resources. I said that as clearly as I 

 know how. 



Mr. Rogers. The point we are making is that has not been done. 

 We have had an oceanography program. We had a 10-year report in 

 1955. You did your in-house study on it. There has been study 

 after study, as you have told us. The Presidential Commission even 

 had a study; we have had an interagency committee, but we still 

 haven't found out about the manganese. We still haven't, evidently, 

 given the necessary research to our industry to go out and do some- 

 thing about it, and to pare away where it is cheap enough to bring 

 in, and so we have to import it, evidently, from other countries. 



But this is the point that I am concerned with, that everything is 

 just a lackadaisical sort of approach and that, well, we will just do 

 it the same old way, and we will have an interagency committee 

 study or a Presidential scientific study. 



Excuse me. 



I thank you. 



Mr. Downing. Well, Mr. Secretary, we have a divergence of judg- 

 ments, and I respect yours, but I would like to conclude by saying 

 you have two frontiers. You have got space, and you have got inner 

 space, and we only have one national program, and it is my judg- 

 ment we need another national program. 



