282 NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 



Mr. Casey. I see. You are Chairman of it also. 



Dr. HoRNiG. Yes. 



Mr. Casey. Yes. 



Now, are there- — of these 17 that are on the Advisory Committee, 

 besides yourself, are they all outside of Government, or are there some 

 others like you who are both inside the Government and outside? 



Dr. HoRNiG. They are all outside of the Government except myself. 



Mr. Casey. Do you have the list of the 10 men that are on this Com- 

 mittee chaired by Dr. MacDonald ? 



Dr. HoRNiG. Yes, I do. Would you like me to read that ? 



Mr. Casey. Yes ; I think it would be interesting. 



Dr. HoRNiG. Besides Dr. MacDonald, there is Dr. Douglas Brooks 

 from the Travelers Eesearch Center; Dr. Robert Charpie from the 

 Union Carbide Corp.; Dr. Robert Fleagle from the Department of 

 Atmospheric Sciences, University of Washington ; Dr. Finn J. Larsen, 

 director of engineering, Minneapolis Honeywell, Inc. ; Dr. William D, 

 McElroy, chairman. Department of Biology of Johns Hopkins Uni- 

 versity ; Dr. John Meyer, Department of Economics, Harvard Univer- 

 sity ; Dr. Walter Munk, Scripps Institution of Oceanography, Univer- 

 sity of California; Dr. Jack P. Ruina, Institute for Defense Analyses; 

 Dr. Henry Stommel, Woods Hole's Oceanographic Institution; and 

 Dr. Gerald B. "\'\niitham, chairman of the Department of Applied 

 Mathematics, California Institute of Technology. And they are as- 

 sisted by tliese two gentlemen from my staif . 



Mr. Casey. How often does this panel meet? Do you have any 

 idea? First, how often do they have regular meetings of the Science 

 Advisory Committee ? 



Dr. HoRNiG. The Science Advisory Committee is one of the hardest 

 working groups in the Government. It has regular meetings 2 days 

 a month. Most of its members normally spend 2 or 3 more days per 

 month working with one or more of the panels on selected topics. 



I think on the average that members of the Science Advisory Com- 

 mittee spend 45 to 50 days a year in the service of the President. 



Mr. Casey. Now, the 10 members on this Oceanography Conunittee, 

 they are also members of the Committee — the Science Advisory Com- 

 mittee ? Is that correct ? 



Dr. HoRNiG. Only the Chairman, Dr. INfacDonald and Dr. McElroy 

 are members of the President's Science Advisory Committee, 



]Mr. Casey. In other words, they creat a chairman, and does he select 

 people to work with him ? 



Dr. HoRNiG. The Committee membership is normally determined 

 through consultation between myself and the Chairman, yes. 



Mr. Casey. Well, I am just curious. What interest does Travelers 

 have in oceanography ? 



Dr. HoRNiG. We normally select people not for what they represent, 

 either by field or by institution. We try to avoid a conflict of interest, 

 but we select people for their personal capabilities, and Dr. Brooks is 

 a very able man who has been involved over a period of years with 

 oceanographic programs. 



Mr. Casey. In other words, it just happens he is with Travelers ? 



Dr. HoRNiG. That is correct. 



Mr. Casey. And he is capable in this field ? 



Dr. Hornig. Yes. I should point out that this is a normal method 

 of operation of the Science Advisory Committee. Its function is to 



