288 NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 



at in these hearings, and I am hesitant to go too far, but I do think 

 that we have not used enough imagination yet from the agency deal- 

 ing with this problem, or even from the Office of Science and 

 Teclinology. 



Not particularly you, but the whole approach. I realize you have 

 many other problems that you have to devote your time to than just 

 oceanography. What would you say is the percentage of time you 

 can devote to this program? 



Dr. HoRNiG. Only a small percentage. 



Mr. Rogers. Certainly. I can understand that. 



You have a staff of how many ? Twenty ? 



Dr. HoRNiG. I have a staff of 20 professionals. 



Mr. Rogers. How many of those devote their full time to oceanog- 

 raphy? Two? 



Dr. HoRNiG. The two we have here. Only one of them is perma- 

 nent, however. 



Mr. Rogers. So we have one man devoting his full time for the 

 President, really, to coordinate all of this activity. It essentially has 

 to come to this one man to advise you on whether you have to go to 

 the Secretary or the Bureau of the Budget on what you want to do. 

 He has to screen this for you, does he not, this one man ? 



Dr. HoRNiG. This is correct. I should also point out, however, that 

 this problem recurs in many areas. 



Mr. Rogers. I do not know we are doing so well in a lot of other 

 areas. I will not get into that. I am not going to excuse what we 

 are not doing in oceanography, because we may not be doing some- 

 thing in another area. 



I do not think that is what you meant, but I do not think that should 

 be used as an argument. 



Dr. HoRNiG. I did not mean that, but the problem I was getting at 

 exists in each area. There is the question of the value of one par- 

 ticular part of the program, such as oceanography in relation to the 

 rest of what we do. I think there is a valid question as to what the 

 balance should be between the pursuit of undersea resources and land 

 resources. 



I asked the Geological Survey once how much gold there was in the 

 crust under the contmental United States within the depth of mining, 

 and the answer was "several trillions of dollars." But, of course, this 

 does not do us any good. Most of it is not economically available. 



So, a balance must be achieved both within oceanography and with 

 respect to the rest of our Federal programs and our national needs. 



I would be the first, though, to agree that we must do more, and we 

 can do it better. This is why we are currently pushing hard in this 

 area. 



Mr. Rogers. I realize that is your position. 



Dr. Hornig. I would like to say that I do not think the central 

 problem at the moment is as much organizational, as trying to define 

 clearly what our purposes and goals are, what the substance of the 

 national effort should be. 



Mr. Rogers. How are we going to come to that determination? 



Dr. HoRNiG. This is the problem I have asked the PSAC Panel to 

 concentrate on, and they are working hard at this moment. They are 

 visiting many of the sites and trying to get a clear picture of what is 

 worthwhile and what is possible in the country. 



