292 NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 



Now, let me ask this. I do not even see really any representative 

 of Government on here, on your panel at all. 



Dr. HoRNiG. That is correct. The panel is drawn completely from 

 •outside of the Government so that it can comment objectively on the 

 'Government programs. 



Mr. Rogers. Does it include a study of industry, industry's capa- 

 bility and how it should be tied into the governmental view, or is this 

 just to look at Government? 



Dr. HoRNiG. No, this is a study of industrial and academic capa- 

 bilities as well as those of Government. The Government viewpoint 

 is represented by ICO and the panel does not operate in isolation. 



Mr. Rogers. You mean, you do not think the Government, who is 

 now spending what — $140-some-odd million, probably the major con- 

 tributor to research in oceanographic matters, should not even be rep- 

 resented on the panel that is going to formulate the national program ? 



Dr. HoRNiG. We have this in the ICO. 



Mr. Rogers. Now, I realize that. I am not talking about the ICO, 

 I am talking about the study that you say is going to take the place 

 of a national commission. And they do not even have a representa- 

 tive of Government. We are the major one participant and yet we 

 are not even having an advisor on there as how to direct the program 

 or what we should do. 



Now, this seems to me to be a major omission. Would you not 

 agree ? For an overall study ? 



Dr. HoRNiG. No, sir ; I do not think I would agree, because in trying 

 to evolve goals, this committee will work very closely with the ICO 

 in reaching a conclusion. The Government will be very well repre- 

 sented although it may not be formally represented on the committee. 



Mr. Rogers. Well, I learned in Congress long enough if you are not 

 on the committee, your discussions often do not get very far. Have 

 you found that in Government ? 



Dr. HoRNiG. I would not disagree with you. 



Mr. Rogers. Well, I will not pursue that point. 



Dr. HoRNiG. I think it might be helpful for you to address the same 

 question to Dr. Morse, to see if he feels the Government will not be 

 adequately represented. 



Mr. Rogers. I do not think it is just a question of whether it is not 

 adequate, it is just a fact that they are not on the panel that you having 

 to study his problem, and we are probably the major activist in this 

 whole field and for me, this is a very great oversight. So, I would 

 hope that you could review with your assistants your position on the 

 national commission and would encourage the President, as I certainly 

 intend to do, and I hope the Congress will, and as I believe it will, the 

 Senate has already passed the bill, as you know, including a commis- 

 sion and I hope that we can do it to set some goals and to get moving 

 on oceanography and not to divide it among the Government, where, 

 as you say, none of the departments have a real, sincere interest in 

 oceanography as a major portion of that program. 



I do think under the ]3resent setup you are doing a very fine job. 

 Dr. Hornig, I am not trying to belittle your efforts in any way, or of 

 the going group. I think ICO has been doing a fine job. I think it 

 is time for us to get a commission to study the whole setup and to set 

 some national goals with a wide range and not a specific little outside 



