NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 295 



Mr. Keith. That is where his salary comes from. 



Dr. HoRNiG. He came to work in my office in order that we could 

 accelerate our activities prior to the time Dr. Menard could join us; 

 we did not want to wait. 



Mr. Fry has been trained as an oceanographer and he has worked 

 in the naval oceanographic program. 



Mr. IvEiTH. He has had extensive training in oceanography? 



Dr. HoRNiG. He has a master's degree in oceanography, 



Mr. Keith. I appreciate that, but I do not necessarily buy that that 

 makes him an oceanographer. 



Dr. HoRNiG. Could he describe for you his oceanographic expe- 

 rience ? 



Mr. Keith. What are your qualifications ? 



Mr. Fry. I was at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in 1951 

 and 1952, and obtained a master's degree in oceanography at that time ; 

 subsequently, I served in a naval oceanographic ship involved in 

 oceanographic surveys and research for a period of 2 years, 



I was at the Underwater Sound Laboratory where I was concerned 

 as a project officer from 1957 to 1959 with the interrelationship of 

 oceanography and underwater acoustics. I returned to the Scripps 

 Institution of Oceanography in the Navy's advanced science program 

 for one year, 1959 through 1960, and did research under Dr. Raitt 

 there on some problems involving the interrelationship of ocean- 

 ography and underwater acoustics. 



Following that assignment I was with an operational destroyer 

 flotilla of the Navy and then transferred to Washington on the staff 

 of the Oceanographer of the Navy, where I served for 2 years. 



Mr. Keith. I think that is a good background and I trust the Navy 

 is going to be smart enough to keep you in an area of activity where 

 you can use this to the Navy's advantage because I would hate to 

 discover, as I often times do, people with a great deal of experience 

 in southeast Asia being sent to Europe, when we need them over there, 

 and I would hope we need oceanographers in the Navy that you would 

 stay in that field. 



Mr. Fry, Thank you, 



Mr. Keith, Have you read by chance the new book "The New 

 Priesthood"? 



Dr. HoRNiG. No, sir ; I am afraid I have not, 



Mr. Keith. Have any of your staff, by chance ? 



Dr. HoRNiG. No, 



Mr. Keith, It is reviewed in the current issue of the New York 

 Times and it talks about — ^the review by the way is entitled "Is the 

 New Mumbo- Jumbo Something To Feel ?" 



Dr. HoRNiG, Is this Dr. Lapp's book ? 



Mr. Iveith. Yes, it is and he says with reference to the Presidential 

 Office of Science and Technology that it still suffers from excessive 

 secrecy and thus lacks public responsibility and accountability. 



And I wondered if you would have any comment to make on that 

 with reference to the questions that have been submitted to your 

 Office or your Office sent to the ICO the so-called privileged but un- 

 classified questions and answers which the ICO research had for your 

 Office for the recent Woods Hole advisory meeting ? 



Are you familiar with those questions and answers ? 



Dr. HoRNiG, I do not think I would call our Office excessively secret. 



