NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 



313 



Dr. HoRNiG. I will make the data available. I should point out 

 now that manpower statistics are a little slippery, because many of 

 the people engaged professionally in oceanography are not labeled 

 as oceanographers. They are physicists, chemists, biologists, and 

 engineers, all working in oceanography, so one has to exercise a certain 

 amount of judgment, but we will certainly supply you with the data. 



(The following material was supplied for the record :) 



Professional staffs in oceanography, science, and engineering 



1 Vetter, R. C: "Growth and Support of Oceanography in the United States, From 1958 to 1963"; Na- 

 tional Academy of Sciences Committee on Oceanography, July 1964. 



2 "Profiles of Manpower in Science and Teclmology"; National Science Foundation, NSF Doc. No. 63-23. 



Mr. Drewry. You have used a flat figure, so I realize it is a slippery 

 one and if you could express it in another way so we could apply some 

 weights of our own to it 



Dr. HoRNiG. I will be very happy to. 



Mr. Drewry. On page 5 you mentioned that there are two important 

 committees in existence to provide advice to the President on diverse 

 activities in science and teclmology: the Federal Council and the 

 President's Science Advisory Committee. You serve as Chairman 

 of both groups. 



Since you chair both groups, in your capacity as Special Assistant 

 to the President for Science and Technology and since both groups 

 advise the President with advice which can be shielded by a well- 

 accepted privilege, how can the Congress have assurance of advice 

 or information from either group ? This is a problem with which we 

 were confronted in the early discussions during the 6 years we have 

 been studying this subject, when we were told that no legislation was 

 necessary, because the ICO was in existence and because the Council 

 existed. But we got a turndown, I think, from Dr. Wiesner at one 

 point that it would not be proper for him to appear, because he was an 

 arm of the President and not statutory. 



So, we still have the same problem with regard to you, to when you 

 want to be here and when you have to be here. 



Dr. HoRNiG. May I answer that question now ? 



Mr. Drewry. Yes. 



Dr. HoRNiG. As to my ability to shield the President and Congress 

 from facts and judgments, I note of the President's Science Advisory 

 Committee that all of its members are appointed by the President. 

 Although I am the Chairman, they have a clear root directly to the 

 President. Since they are all strongminded people, when they have 

 disagreed with the Chairman, or the Chairman has not acted, they 

 can and have taken their points of view directly to the President, with 

 the cooperation of the Chairman, I might add, although this has been 

 very infrequent. 



Thus, I do not believe that their advice can be suppressed. Nor 

 would I have any interest in doing so. 



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