NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHTC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 365 



There is a basis on which to build, so I do not think we need the crash 

 effort, if you will, that was present in the days of NASA, but I do 

 think that many of the administrative elements that were present 

 in NASA, that is, the ability to establish goals and to take action 

 necessary to achieve their accomplishment, must be present in any 

 ao^ency or council or whatever you wish to call it, that deals with 

 the national ocean program. But the most significant thing is that 

 the type of body selected work through the existing organizations, 

 wherever it is possible, and set out on its own only when an existing 

 organization or the industrial community is incapable or unwilling 

 to do it themselves. 



Mr. Caset. You are not going to get any of the present existing 

 agencies or departments to admit that they are not doing what they 

 should be doing. That is why we are holding these hearings and why 

 we have these bills. We are not satisfied with the efforts and that is 

 why you are here : You are not satisfied with the efforts. 



Mr. Clotsvortht, Yes. I suspect that these agencies would be very 

 pleased, though, if that part of their annual budget dealing with the 

 oceans was decided for them. But the individual agency basis is 

 not the proper way to establish goals for the coming year or defend 

 them. These goals should be established and depended by a body which 

 is responsible to the Congress and answerable in gains made in ocean- 

 ography. 



At the present time, quite a number of the agenices have ocean- 

 ography way down on the list of priorities, as you have recognized. 

 I think if they would be relieved of the problem of defending a non- 

 mainstream element of their operation, relieved of this responsibility 

 by an agency above them, they would be quite willing to proceed and 

 to continue doing the fine work that they are doing now with what 

 I consider to be an administrative inhibition on their effectiveness. 



Mr. Casey. I do not know whether we are getting anywhere on 

 this other than the plea or the argument we have heard in the last 

 few days was that the Office of Science and Technology feel that they 

 are handling this properly and giving it a pretty good push and that 

 they are studying further and trying to develop better goals, but I 

 think the real effort and real interest is being lost in the — for a better 

 description — Eube Goldberg manner in which they go around punch- 

 ing buttons, which in turn punches this committee, and the next com- 

 mittee, which finally gets back to the man who headed the first com- 

 mittee. 



We have one of them wearing three or four hats and he admits he 

 does not have time- 

 Mr. Lennox. Off the record. 



(Discussion off the record.) 



Mr. Lennon. On the record. 



You may proceed. 



Mr. Casey. And I think the gentleman is Director of the Office of 

 Science and Technology. He just has his hands full, so that we do 

 not believe it is given sufficient attention, and he admits that he spends 

 very little time on oceanography. 



He has one man on his staff that is supposed to be assigned to ocean- 

 ography, but also that man has other things to do, so I think I under- 

 stand what you mean is that we do not need to go in an all-out effort 



