NATIONAL O'CEANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 371 



about yesterday, with the P^SSA prog^ram. We are seeking informa- 

 tion, sir, and I appreciate your — I have been very greatly impressed by 

 the sincerity of your statement and your general knowledge with the 

 subject. 



If you can lielp us, we want help. 



Now, Mr. Counsel? 



Mr. i)REWRY. Mr. Clotwoi-thy 



Mr. Lennon. Before you start, could we go off the record? 



(Discussion off the record.) 



Mr. Lennon. Back on the record. Thank you very much. 



Mr. Drev/uy. Mr. Clotworthy, I am interested in your problem 

 about "closing the loop" and about "providing muscle." 



Have you given any thought to whether the NACA concept would 

 be adaptable" in this "situation ? That is, a step short of NASA. I 

 think actually it was out of NACA that a lot of the early space and 

 aeronautics effort was made and probably out of NACA that NASA 

 developed. 



I am not too familiar in detail with the group, so I am a little hesi- 

 tant in advancing the thought. 



NACA Avas a Government agency, at that time without appropria- 

 tions, and yet it was a little offbeat for a Government agency to cope 

 with special problems in fields where both industry was concerned and 

 where Government was concerned. I recall that NACA had non- 

 Go veriiment members as well as Government members. 



Are you familiar enough with, that to have any thoughts as to 

 whether that might be a focal point. It is not — of course — ^true in one 

 sense to say there is nobody working full time on oceanography. 

 There are a great many people doing it in Government — in Westing- 

 house — and many other industrial organizations and institutions. 



But there has been a problem for some time to find a focus. That is 

 the thing we are groping for. And the focus is not needed for surface 

 items, because they are being done. The focus we need is of a coordi- 

 nating nature — of how to make various disciplines work into a 

 program. 



The program problem comes into certain areas where there seems 

 to be nothing being done and yet where perhaps the Federal Govern- 

 ment should be doing it. 



Would an agency of that sort, such as NACA, offer any possible 

 solution to close the gap or produce the muscles ? 



Mr. Clotworthy. The NACA approach was considered at length 

 when the NSIA ad hoc committee on the national ocean program 

 had its deliberations. 



The NACA approach represents what to us appeared to be a very 

 reasonable means for moving ahead. I am not completely familiar 

 with all of its ramifications, but from what I do know, it is a very 

 satisfactory approach. 



Mr. Drewry. And may at least as an interim measure lead ulti- 

 mately to a single agency ? 



Mr. Clotworthy. Yes, sir. 



Mr. Drewry. Just one further question. You mentioned NSIA, 

 and you mentioned your affiliation with it. 



Are you in a sense representing their views here today ? 



Mr. Clotavorthy. No, sir. My own views. 



