504 NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 



Mr. Lennon. You said they met at infrequent intervals, but that 

 averages at least once a month, does it not ? 



Mr. McKernan. About once a month. I think in the last year 

 there were about 11 meetings in 12 months. 



Mr. Lennon. Are they 5 o'clock meetings ? 



Mr. McKernan. No. they are long meetings and they usually are 

 from 2 to 4 hours, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Lennon. And you say that they do not devote a major part of 

 their time, meet at infrequent intervals to devote only a few hours 

 each month to this important function. It therefore has difficulty 

 in establishing priorities or making reviews in depth of programs 

 and plans. 



The staff of ICO is loaned and receives budget support from the 

 various agencies. 



If it has difficulty establishing priorities and making these reviews 

 in depth of programs and planning, then it is not functioning as it 

 shovild, is it ? 



Mr. McKernan. That is right, and Mr. Chairman, essentially I 

 think it does well 



Mr. Lennon. I know something of institutional restraint of wit- 

 nesses who come before the committees and I am appreciative of it but 

 people ought to be permitted to testify as to their personal observa- 

 tions and knowledge rather than through institutional restraint and 

 I appreciate your candor and frankness. 



Now, how can Congress make some contribution to alleviate this 

 situation which you say prohibits the establishing of priorities and 

 does not permit making reviews in depth of programs and planning. 



Mr. McKernan. Mr. Chairman, you have asked me personally what 

 I think should be done. I think what should be done must be taken 

 in steps. 



I first would like to see a discussion in depth with varying segments 

 of our society who operate and use knowledge on ocean science. 



Therefore, my personal opinion is that the measures that are be- 

 fore you which call for very careful consideration of ocean science 

 and ocean use form a practical step to be taken. 



This, it seems to me, would lead to an improved mechanism for deal- 

 ing with this so-called science which has grown beyond the present 

 somewhat limited mechanism that now is operating in the Federal 

 E stabl ishment. 



I think that this will lead to legislation, perhaps a consolidation, 

 and perhaps different budgeting, even perhaps maybe to consideration 

 of lead agencies such as Dr. Hollomon mentioned. 



On the other hand, it seems to me it is a little premature to make 

 that decision. I should like to see representatives of the interest of 

 industr}^, the interest of the academic institutions, as well as of those 

 of some of the States who are occupied in ocean science and the applica- 

 tion of ocean science, and of the Federal Government look at this 

 problem over a period of time. 



I was impressed by Dr. Seidman's mention that he felt 



Mr. Lennon. I wish he could have heard your testimony. 



Mr. McKernon (continuing). That a couple of years would be re- 

 quired in order to adequately consider such an important and com- 

 plicated matter. 



I feel the same way. 



