NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 505 



Mr. Lennon. Now, Mr. McKernan, let us assume that what you 

 say it is necessary to do — in the interval, while we are waiting for the 

 President's Special Advisory Panel on Oceanography to report what 

 can be done to alleviate and to imj)rove conditions with respect to the 

 problems that are faced by ICO ? 



You say the Congress cannot do that, that has to be done by the 

 Federal Science Council ? 



Mr. McKernan. I think that under the present constitution of the 

 Federal Council and the ICO itself can improve its present opera- 

 tion and, in fact, it is doing a good deal of soul searching right at the 

 present time attempting to improve its mechanisms. 



Now, I am not sure whether I have overstated the problems in my 

 statement, Mr. Chairman, because I am tremendously impressed with 

 what has been accomplished. 



Incidentally, I have heard other members of the committees say the 

 same thing. My intent really is to indicate that with the present state 

 of the art we need something more in the way of Government policy, 

 but, in the meantime, we can improve the institutional barriers that 

 make the function of the present organization in effective in some 

 areas — we can improve this some. 



In my view the present ICO-Federal council arrangement will not 

 be adequate in tlie future. 



Mr. Lennon. Now, I am impressed with your enthusiasm to im- 

 prove this. What about your counterparts on ICO and also those who 

 represent the agencies on the Federal Council ? 



Are they likewise enthused in a desire to improve it ? 



Mr. McKernan. Yes, there is no hesitation in saying that every 

 memher of the ICO wants to make the organization work effectively, 

 and the general cooperation, general feeling of respect among members 

 of the ICO, is very high ; perhaps has never been higher than it is at 

 the present time. 



And, in fact, recently, during the last few weeks while these hearings 

 have been going on, the Council has been meeting and discussing 

 whether the structure of the ICO could be improved within the limita- 

 tions in which we operate. 



Mr. Lennon. Mr. Drewry ? 



Mr. Drewrt. No questions at the moment. 



Mr. Lennon. Mr. Casey, I am sorry, I thought you had passed. 



Mr. Casey. Reserved. 



Mr. Lennon. I am sorry, you go right ahead. 



Mr. Casey. I want to compliment you on your statement. You are 

 the jiirst one that has come up here and has not taken the position that 

 everything was real rosy. You have been very frank in pointing out 

 what you feel has been the accomplishments as well as the major weak- 

 nesses of the operation of the ICO. 



Now, Dr. Hornig, I believe, said the other day, I think he was the 

 one that said there was consideration for getting a permanent staff 

 for ICO which would eliminate departmental affiliations or loyalty or, 

 I think he said, competition. 



Mr. Lennon. Will the gentleman yield to me ? 



Mr. Casey. Yes. 



Mr. Lennon. That is the reason I am amazed to hear them say they 

 have five people full time. We got the impression that the people they 



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