508 NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 



Now, the Federal Council has an input back through the Bureau 

 of the Budget, and as these departmental budgets come through there 

 is an effort made to coordinate the review within the executive and 

 come out with some semblance of a reasonable program. 



Now, it is difficult, and it is imperfect at the present time ; but it is 

 a great deal better than it was, and there is an input from the Federal 

 Council and the office of the President's science adviser into this^ 



Mr. Casey. That is with the Bureau of the Budget ? 



Mr. McKernan. Yes, sir. 



Mr. Casey. I am talking about up here — before congressional com- 

 mittees. 



Mr. McKernan. Before congressional committees the matter gets 

 more complicated and we do not have a good mechanism worked out. 



Mr. Casey. As far as the executive is concerned, they think it is 

 working great because the Chairman of the Federal Council is also the 

 Director of the Office of Science and Technology who in turn tells the 

 Bureau of the Budget after the various committees, he works very 

 closely with them, and tells them this is in keeping with the executive 

 department's oceanography program. But you completely ignore — I 

 say you — the system that presently exists completely ignores that the 

 Congress does not hear whether you want it OK'd or we do not have 

 the money. 



The Congress is also in my opinion supposed to serve as initiating 

 some of these things and insisting on some of them being done, but 

 under the present system we do not have that opportunity. 



Mr. McKernan". That is correct. As was pointed out before this 

 committee by Dr. Wakelin, I think about a year ago, there are some 32 

 or so committees before which various segments of the ICO budget go 

 here in Congress. 



Mr. Casey. There are an awful lot of us in Congress that do not be- 

 lieve what the Department tells us is as it should be, on oceanography 

 and other things. We also feel that the Congress itself should not 

 wait necessarily for the executive department to get an idea and throw 

 it to us. 



We ought to have sense enough to get an idea of our own sometimes 

 and have the opportunity to promote it and see that it is don.e. 



So, I deeply appreciate your frankness and the benefit of your ex- 

 perience as a member since the inauguration of the ICO and I can see 

 very well from the Bureau of the Budget's standpoint this is called 

 an arm of the executive that they can see that it works fine as far as 

 any ideas they get. 



But by the same token I can see also I have borne down on this new 

 project that they all wanted to do but none of them had nerve enough 

 to put it in. 



The Congress might want to do it, specifically a committee such as 

 ours, that is interested in oceanography, but we do not have any op- 

 portunity to do it. 



Mr. McKernan". There is no focal point here in Congress, you are 

 absolutely correct. 



Mr. Casey. If the ICO would decide this is a thing that the Navy 

 ought to do, when the Navy goes up for its departmental budget, you 

 state in here that each agency — ^but if they get up there before Mr. 

 Kivers' committee or Mr. Mahon's Committee on Appropriations, and 



