NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 529 



that are necessary for their particular agency, but related basic re- 

 search that should be conducted along with the primary responsibility ? 



Have you noticed any difficulty in sometimes getting funds for this ? 



Hr. Haworth. Well, Mr. Chairman, I guess to be honest, I should 

 say that most agencies think that they do not get enough funds for 

 any of their activities. 



Mr. Caset. That is right. 



Mr. Haworth. And certainly oceanography shares in this without 

 any question. There has not been as much money available for 

 oceanography as many of us would like to see. I do not thhik it is 

 peculiar in this respect. In fact, in my opinion it has done very well 

 in the last — will, since I have been familiar, which is about 4 years. 



I came to Washington about four and a half years ago. And it 

 has certainly done very well in that time because of, I think, three 

 factors. Of course, it had been sort of brought into the spotlight 

 back in 1958, along in there by such things as the academy study, and 

 so on. 



Then there was the very great interest of the Congress which has 

 helped not only in the sense of appropriations, but also ui the sense of 

 spurring on the executive branch, calling attention to it, and, of 

 course, Mr. Kennedy's great interest was a stimulus to it. The sup- 

 port of oceanography has grown much more rapidly than the support 

 of most fields; indeed I cannot think of another field that has scien- 

 tific implications or scientific basis and so on, that has grown as rapidly 

 except space. 



Now, it started pretty low. It did not have the attention or the 

 support that it deserved and perhaps it has not yet caught up. 



With respect to your question about the competition, say, within: 

 the Defense Department between research and survey and so on in 

 oceanography and other Defense activities within Commerce or what- 

 ever department, this, of course, is always a problem. It is a problem 

 within the Science Foundation, the competition for funds for re- 

 search in oceanography as compared to research, say, in the atmos- 

 pheric sciences, or anytliing else. 



I think that problem would exist no matter what our organization'. 

 is. Suppose we were starting all over again and had some different 

 kind of organization of the Government ; in principle we could have- 

 departments of oceanography and departments of this and that, with 

 missions in a sort of horizontal way instead of a vertical way, as we 

 now have them, then you would have the competition between, say,, 

 those aspects of oceanography that apply to defense as compared to- 

 those aspects of oceanography that referred to commercial exploita- 

 tion, and you would have a similar problem, except with a different 

 cut. 



It would be sliced horizontally instead of vertically, if I can be very 

 crude about it. 



I think that the solution is just to keep pushing ; for everyone who is 

 interested to do everything we can to promote it ; to improve organiza- 

 tional arrangements ; for Congress to do appropriate things ; for the 

 executive branch to sharpen itself up as much as it can, and so on. 



Mr. Casey. How is the National Oceanographic Data Center — 

 how is it funded ? 



