534 NATIONAL aCBANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 



One kind of interest is an interest in the biology of the ocean, 

 biological life in the oceans, because it is in the oceans ; and the other 

 kind is an interest in which some kind of life that is in the ocean 

 is used to study general biological principles and the fact that it is 

 an aquatic is incidental. 



Let me give an example. This does not have really much to do 

 with oceanography. In the study of nerve reactions with the ultimate 

 interest in the human nervous system, the nerve system of the squid is 

 used to study nerve interactions, because in that case the reactions 

 are slow as compared to a human being and one can study them 

 much better. This might be called a kind of marine biology. I am 

 sure this is not included in the oceanography program, but it is an 

 example of my second point ; it just happens that the squid lives in the 

 ocean. 



On the other hand, there is the kind of interest that is really an 

 interest because of the ocean. Because of the two kinds it seems better 

 in biology — according to the biologists, and I do not know enough 

 about it to have a personal opinion — not to separate out the oceano- 

 graphic side of biology as distinguished from what I will call marine 

 biology of the second kind of interest, but to divide it into the various 

 kinds of interests of biologists. 



So, it is a different organization 



Mr. Rogers. So the real emphasis then is not on oceanography on 

 the biological side, you are telling me ? 



Mr. Ha WORTH. It is not a focal interest the same way as it is on the 

 physical side. 



Mr. Rogers. I understand. 



How is your budget divided as for support on the biological side and 

 on the earth sciences side ? 



Mr. Ha WORTH. Well, I can speak on the latter personally and I will 

 let Dr. Carlson tell you about the former. 



Mr. Rogers. As far as oceanography 



Mr. Ha WORTH. I understand. 



On the physical side, where it is identifiable as a package, as we form 

 our budget, we actually do a two-stage process in a sense — ^the various 

 sections and subsections of the Foundation, which includes the Physi- 

 cal Oceanography Subsection, get up proposals for the upcoming 

 budget. They have been going through that, for example, for the 

 1967 budget in the past few months. 



These are then assembled up the line and they are put together 

 in the total earth sciences, and that is put together in the total physical 

 sciences, and so on. But the identity is kept clear up to me. 



Well then, inevitably it turns out the totals add up to more money 

 than is realistic. We then work back and forth and gradually ar- 

 rive — by negotiation, if you will, that perhaps is too strong a word — 

 but at a final budget in which the oceanography, tihe physical oceanog- 

 raphy, keeps its identity. 



On the other hand, as you can tell from my description of the ocean, 

 it is not separately identified as a package on the biological side in 

 quite the same sense, although we are also aware and are able, for 

 example, to tell ICO at any stage what the situation looks like, and 

 how we have reacted to what they think should be done, and so on, 



