NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 585 



cizino- what lias been done — we have made great progress and this 

 connnittee recognizes that, but a critical note that we are not really 

 ready to move, people liave not grasped the vision of what can be done 



yet.^ 



You see, in looking at the background, you may not be aware of it, 

 but this committee 2 years ago passed a bill that we are still considering 

 now. 



Commander Walsh. Yes, sir. 



Mr. Rogers. The Senate passed it, and then because of some who 

 were in the field in Government, asked the President not to sign it, 

 and he vetoed it. 



Commander Walsh. Yes, sir. 



Mr. Rogers. So, we have some reason for some criticism, not that we 

 are trying to underplay the great efforts that have been done, and I 

 would agree with you, we owe a great debt of gratitude to those who 

 have devoted their lives to this field and are doing a magnificent job, 

 but we want to do more and urge them and try to be helpful, and the 

 Congress has felt the Congress must step into this field very firmly in 

 order to help give some direction and that is the purpose of these 

 hearings and we intend to accomplish that. 



Commander Walsh. Yes, sir ; and I see that the great bulk of these 

 people, these dedicated workers, have long shared your frustrations 

 and I think that the great bulk of them are completely sympathetic 

 to the purpose of this legislation. 



Mr. Rogers. I think this^has developed, we were pleased, particu- 

 larly wdien we got them to give their personal views. 



Commander Walsh. Yes, sir, I think that is very important. 



Mr. Rogers. Mr. Casey ? 



Mr. Casey. I, too, want to compliment Commander Walsh on his 

 statement in helping us get a good perspective. Having observed 

 these hearings as you have, of course, you are in a position to kind of 

 help us analyze this from a more objective point, I think, than we have 

 ourselves. 



However, with reference to this attitude that seems to be predomi- 

 nant about the kind of argumentative or critical — of course, I have not 

 been up here as long as some of them, but unfortunately I notice that 

 some of the ones that get the most done are the meanest members, 

 which I think is poor psychology. 



I really do, and every once in a while I will tell some agency that 

 I have been working with them, telling them I want to work with them 

 to accomplish something, and along comes some member who gets on 

 the floor and just chews them out and begins to ride them hard and the 

 next thing you know he gets it accomplished. 



He gets all the credit and they appreciated my cooperativeness, but 

 nevertheless they let him take the credit for ha"\dng pushed them into 

 doing something. 



It is a sorry system. Frankly, I think things should be accom- 

 plished by sitting down and discussing them in a gentlemanly manner, 

 but you always have the conflict in our system between the legislative 

 branch and the executive branch, and I do not think it will ever end 

 as far as that is concerned. 



As the chairman here pointed out, the bill we passed that was vetoed 

 was in my opinion very mild compared to most of these we have now. 



53-367—65 3S 



