586 NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC PROGRAM LEGISLATION 



Now, if we generate enough interest they may get something 

 stronger and it may not be to the best interest. 



Now, what we are trying to find out is what would be the best 

 interest. 



You will notice the bill that passed the Senate, Mr. Magnuson's 

 bill, he is a very influential gentleman in that body being chairman 

 of the committee that he controls, and when I say controls, I mean 

 controls. 



And he passed it with a voice vote. 



Now, he may be in a position to say, this is going to be it. And 

 if we should pass his bill, and, there has been not a word of support 

 for his bill before this committee, but I dare say that if he is sufficiently 

 strong in his support for his particular measure, it will not be vetoed, 

 because again, it is "who holds, the meanest situation." [Laughter.] 



Commander Walsh. Right. Many excellent studies have been 

 done ; this was brought out in the hearings. I think most of the basic 

 pick and shovel work has been done in developing an important and 

 viable program though there have been certain disagreements and 

 frictions. 



No program has emerged as the victor, and I think this is a most 

 useful function you are serving here, because I see in most of your 

 legislation a study of existing efforts ; in other words, we should have 

 a "study of the studies." 



Why go back to the fundamentals ? This has been done by many 

 agencies — industry right now, the National Security Industrial As- 

 sociation, is involved in a study of ocean sciences and technology from 

 an industrial-based point of view. 



Excellent work has been done, but we need somebody now to take 

 all of the products of these essentially good efforts and develop a via- 

 ble, workable, national program in the best interests of our country, 

 and I think that the point was well brought out earlier in these hear- 

 ings that if the legislation had passed — had passed 2 years ago — we 

 would have had a 2-year-old yardstick by which to measure your cur- 

 rent deliberations. 



You do not have this yardstock so I feel the recommended approach 

 to this legislation is very wise, and that is to survey the situation at 

 various degrees and levels, but not to leap right into an omniscient 

 Federal agency or new department. 



Mr. Casey, (presiding). I do not want to belittle the fact and 

 the observation you know, that we do owe a great deal of credit to 

 accomplishments of this small group and I think it is even more mag- 

 nified when you look, you sat here and listened to the mechanics of 

 the very f ouled-up methods of accomplishing something. 



They have fine methods as far as determining in the executive de- 

 partment, but after they determine something the push is gone; 

 they go their separate ways. That is the main fault, I think. 



Commander Walsh. These human resources, we must husband these 

 resources because you cannot legislate scientists into existence, it is 

 impossible. 



Therefore, these limited resources we have we must use to the best 

 effectiveness within our power, and this is one of the strongest argu- 

 ments for your deliberations. 



At best we have 3,000 oceanographic scientists in the United States, 

 at least, depending on whose count you take, 1,500, and this in- 



