177 



first of all sulfuric acid, and then subsequently caustic soda, which 

 the Administration on Oceanography became involved in and had the 

 assurance of the Navy there would be an investigation, and a rej^ort 

 and an assurance, too, that they would take it up with you. 



We would like to know, and we think we are entitled to know, if 

 they did carry out that directive which obviously they have not be- 

 cause you have no recollection of it. 



I thank the gentleman for yielding. Mr. Mosher. 

 Mr. MosHER. Judge Train, at the bottom of page 10 you commend 

 the committee for its interest in the subject and you speak of the co- 

 operative and bipartisan spirit. I judge you are implying there that 

 the administration has considerable flexibility in its attitude on this 

 legislation, and you are prepared for some give and take as the com- 

 mittee considers legislation, and you anticipate that the administra- 

 tion bill will be changed to include provisions in those bills introduced 

 by members of our committee. I hope that is the case. 



Mr. Train. That is absolutely correct, Mr. Mosher. The adminis- 

 tration's purpose is to achieve strong ocean-dumping control legisla- 

 tion as soon as possible. 



Mr. Mosher. So now the issue between the administration bill and 

 the bills that have been generated on the Hill seems to be the degree 

 of discretion which the Administrator of the Environmental Protec- 

 tion Agency would have. The administration bill gives him almost 

 whole discretion — at least it is very wide discretion — whereas most of 

 the other bills restrict his options in one way or another. 



I think that inevitably will be taken into consideration as we ponder 

 this legislation. Do you have a certain degree of flexibility at that 

 point ? Do you anticipate that perhaps we should sharpen and strength- 

 en, and perhaps limit that discretiionary power to a greater degree 

 than in the administration bill ? 



Mr. Train. I think it would be my view that while the policy should 

 be very clearly announced, and while the criteria which are developed 

 by the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency should 

 be made a matter of public record, and settled only after public com- 

 ment, that the Congress should permit great flexibility in the admin- 

 istration of this program rather than trying to legislate fixed rules 

 concerning what can and what cannot be dumped, and fix time tables 

 or specific references to geographic areas. 



I believe that we are dealing with a highly complex problem. I 

 do not believe that you can pretend to, or seek to, regulate the marine 

 environment in some sort of separation from the land environment. We 

 are talking about one total interrelated problem. This is the reason 

 why, for example, the administration -s legislation contains the require- 

 nient that the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency 

 in setting standards must take into account the effect on the marine en- 

 vironment, and also the availability of alternative disposal methods. 

 I think that it would be both unrealistic, and I think incorrect, to 

 require ocean-dumping decisions to be made irrespective of the effect 

 of other alternatives. 



Mr. Mosher. Well, the complexity of the job is very apparent. I 

 agree that there is a need for considerable discretionary flexibility, 

 but at the same time I think that we are going to have to have this 



