188 



ought to completely free up this area and get the States out of it. 

 I would like your comments. 



First of all, in an area such as the Delawai'e River where you have 

 two States bounding either side of the river you have the problem of 

 allowing a dumper to choose his jurisdiction. New Jersey sets up one 

 standard and Delaware another one and they are different. The dump- 

 ing company or the dumping concern could choose between the two 

 of those if both of them had standards that were more stringent than 

 the Federal. 



Second, as soon as you permit a State to set up its own law that is 

 more stringent than the Federal law and preempt the Federal law 

 thereiby, then you throw out the window all the Federal enforcement 

 procedures. If you take away the Federal law, you take away Federal 

 enforcement, you take away the Federal court system, any citizen suits 

 that you permit, anything of that kind. 



Mr. Leis^non". Would the gentleman let Mr. Train comment on both 

 of these various good questions ? 



Mr. DuPoNT. All right. I have two more. 



Mr. Lennon. He may not get a chance to answer any of them. 



Mr. DuPoNT. Perhaps we could start with those two and get your 

 comment generally. 



Mr. Traix. Let me be sure I understand the question. Your con- 

 cern with the case within the 3 mile limit is where a State would have 

 more stringent standards for disj)osal than would Federal Govern- 

 ment and what that would do to the system. Now as I understand 

 the act, Mr. DuPont, all ckmiping will require a permit from EPA, 

 all of it in every case. Under the Water Quality Improvement Act of 

 last year. Section 21(b) wherever the Federal Government grants a 

 license for an activity which by a discharge could affect State and 

 water quality standards it must get a certification from the State of 

 the effect of the discharge in light of the standards and that I think 

 is what would happen in this case. The State would say, "We have 

 stronger water quality standards with respect to this 3 mile area and 

 we would not approve a dumping tested only by the Federal standards, 

 and this is what you would have to do for us to go along with it. 



Mr. DuPoNT. So the State would have the final authority. 



Mr. Train. No, the Federal Government would give the permit, as 

 I understand it, but only if it met the State water quality standards. 



Mr. DuPoNT, In other words 



]\Ir. Train, You better permit me to send you an answer for the 

 record on that. 



Mr. DuPoNT. I would appreciate it. 



Mr. Train. I am really not familiar enough with the interrelation- 

 ship of these more than to just muddy the record for you. 



Mr. Lennon. Mr. Train, I think the two questions, you have two 

 more yet to go, are very vital to the ultimate decision this committee 

 would have to make in the point of time that it has to report out the 

 bill. You can see a permit issued by the State of South Carolina within 

 the 3 mile limit but who is going to bear that? You said you 

 cannot just move the length of the ship off the coast of North Caro- 

 lina and dump or off the coast of Georgia and dump, move out of 

 Port. Charleston, Wilmington, or Morehead, N.C. I am just illustrat- 

 ing those because I do know them. Do go into that in depth. 



