190 



is tlie policy of the port at the present time to take the impact of dis- 

 posal into acconnt in making a decision as to whether to dredge in 

 the first place, and I understand this is reducing the amount of dredg- 

 ing and dumping situations in the case of polluted spoils. 



As I also pointed out, the increasing impact of water quality stand- 

 ards over the years will certainly reduce the pollution of bottom ma- 

 terials in harbors and river bottoms. 



Mr. RuppE. You cannot do much to eliminate the pollution that is 

 already there but you feel it can immeasurably reduce the pollution 

 that would take place in the future. 



]Mr. Train. Yes ; over a long period of time and then also the impact 

 of the dumping of these spoils can be minimized by careful selection of 

 site, shiftmg of sites, and so forth. 



Ivlr. Rtjppe. Do you know if the program in the Great Lakes of not 

 dumping back any polluted dredge sj^oils has actually taken effect 

 yet ? Is there anything to demonstrate concrete results? 



Mr. Train. I believe this is underway. It is something to be done 

 over a period of years. It is not a complete answer at the present time. 



Mr. Rtjppe. Have you had anything to do in your agency with the 

 dumping of mine tailings or taconite sands in Lake Superior ? 



Mr. Train. I am generally familiar with the problem. No; we have 

 not had any specific activity. 



j\Ir. RuppE. Would they fall into one of the classifications you con- 

 sider should be eliminated or terminated under the identifications you 

 have listed in tliis testimony? 



Mr. Train. Well, I think it quite clear that they would be either 

 under this dumping control or they would be under the permit sys- 

 tem set up under the Refuse Act which the President ordered in 

 December. 



]Mr. RuppE. You say they would be effective ? 



i\Ir. Train. Yes. They certainly would be controlled one way or the 

 other. 



jSir. RuppE. But the dete<rmination would have to be made, either 

 controlled or eliminated. This bill would not specifically eliminate 

 them as such, is that correct ? 



]Mr. Train. That is correct. This bill provides the authority for 

 regulating. 



Mr. RxTppE. Thank you. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Lennon. Thank you. 



The subcommittees will stand in recess until 2 :15. 



Whereupon, at 12:45 p.m., the subcommittee recessed, to recon- 

 vene at 2:15 p.m.) 



AFTERNOON SESSION 



Mr. DiNGELL. The subcommittee will come to order. 



This is a continuation hearing on ocean dumping begun this 

 morning. 



At the time the subcommittee adjourned we were hearing from our 

 good friend. Russell E. Train, Chairman of the Council on Environ- 

 mental Quality. 



The Chair will recognize for purpose of questioning our counsel, 

 Mr. Everett, for any questions he wishes to ask. 



Mr. Everett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



