20il 



hearing in cases where this is held to be desirable, and I would expect 

 this will work equally efficientl3^ 



Mr. DiNGELL. This being so, then there would be no strong objec- 

 tion to require notice of hearing in connection with the bill before us ? 



Mr. Train. This could well be. You certainly do not want to require 

 a hearing as a matter of course in all of these permit applications, I 

 would think. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Now, you are going to have some cases where you are 

 going to have dual permit authority. 



Who will issue the permit for ocean dumping, will it be done by both 

 agencies, or will it be done through some joint permit issuing process ? 



Mr. Train. The issuing authority is the Environmental Protection 

 Agency. 



Mr. DiNGELL. You will find certain instances where ocean dumping- 

 will be covered by the permit requirements of the statute, that are 

 proposed before us today, and also through the 1899 act. 



Mr. Train. I think I may have missj)oken before. This supersedes 

 the Refuse Act. 



Mr. DiNGELL. It does supersede the Eef use Act in total ? 



Mr. Train. In connection with dumping covered by this act. 



Mr. DiNGELL. Well, thank you very mucli, Mr. Train. 



Mr. Everett. 



Mr. Everett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



In connection with the question you just answered, you did state 

 a moment ago this act did not supersede the 1899 Refuse Act, and I 

 note now you say that it does. 



Mr. Train. Yes. You will find that on page 14. 



Mr. Everett. Yes, sir. 



Mr. Train. Subparagraph (e). 



Mr. Everett. It is not clear to me what the net effect would be with 

 respect to those portions of the 1899 act that are superseded, and I was 

 wondering if you could summarize just what the net effect of subsec- 

 tion (e) is on section 13 of the Rivers and Harbors Act of 1899. 



Mr. Train. Frankly, Mr. Chairman, it sounds like I am ducking the 

 question. I do not mean to. This is a highly technical complicated area 

 of the interrelations of three or four different statutes. 



One program is really not even in effect yet. One is the legislation 

 before you, much of the application of which is going to turn upon 

 the kinds of regulations which will be issued by the Administrator. 



I would be happy to address myself in writing to the committee as 

 best I can, in talking with other agencies on these questions, but I think 

 I prdbably will be doing a disser^dce to this committee if I should try 

 to speak off the cuff' to that particular question. 



I will be most happy to answer that in writing. 



Mr. DiNGELL. In perfect fairness to you, it is a highly teclmical 

 question. 



I will direct this question to be answered in writing. 



(Answer follows : ) 



Section 7 of H.R. 4723 deals with the relationship of this legislation to other 

 laws. Generally, except as provided in subsections 7(b) and 7(c) , it provides that 

 after the Act's effective date, existing licenses, permits', or authorization would 

 be terminated to the extent they authorize activity covered by this proposal, and 



32-513—71- 



